Should my wetroom floor move that much?

[Flyingblind]

Hi, I am after some advice from those in the know. We have had a wetroom installed, and the shower area has a marmox tray under mosaic tiles. Its been in about four weeks, and there are lines of grout coming away. The floor, when finished has always seemed to have too much 'give' and my husband asked the installer about it. He said that becasue it is a foam tray it will give. But if you place your foot on the tray and push down you can feel the whole area depress. Now, if you go back after a shower, and press on the flour, you can see water coming back up between the tiles. I obviously know that isnt right. But the question is very you should be able to feel the floor sink when you step on the shower area? My father stayed and he found it a really unsettling sensation the first time. The other question is whether there is such a thing as an independant assessor that we could get in to look at the floor to see if its OK?

Any help greatfully appreciated as I am flying blind!!

 

[Rookery]

There should not be any movement. The TTA have a scheme but its very expensive. Maybe someone local on here will offer to come and have a look.

 

[Del W]

Water coming up through the tiles would ring alam bells

 

[Alan.P]

Your first port of call should be get the Tiler back, explain the problem, it is his work at fault and you must give him a chance to rectify it, if that fails then there are legal means, at the end of the day the should be no movement, and definitely no water coming back at you, is it a concrete / wooden upstairs or downstairs wet-room.

 

[Flyingblind]

Hi, Thanks for your replies. The fitter is coming back tomorrow and I am going to point out the floor, but we have had 10 weeks (yes 10 week to fit 2 bathrooms!!) of having to insist of things being put right. I am concerned he will stick to his guns that its because foam and just needs regrouting to stop the water. I have read about compression being a problem with foam boards. But there must be degrees of compression - this feels like you are walking on a camping sleeping mat. I want to feel justified in my gut feeling that this isnt right!

 

[Flyingblind]

Its an upstairs wetroom. He said he braced the joists, but I dont know what he laid the tray on. We could possible remove part of the kitchen ceiling to look up and see what we can see! We've got to reskim the kitchen ceiling anyway after two leaks (one of which wasnt his fault)

 

[Martyn Leeds]

Do you have any other shower/bath in the house??

'cos I defnately wouldn't be using this shower until its all sorted.

Water coming up through the tiles isn't a good sign! sure the 'tiler' will agree with you there

 

[Alan.P]

I've a feeling you may have to get legal with your fixer, if you've had 2 leaks, one of which is his, how many more, the install isn't right, have you paid in full ?

 

[judge]

Foam tray and mosaics ????

 

[Rookery]

With some of these trays there's a minimum tile size to prevent point loading/compression. What size are your mosaics? The individual pieces, not the sheet size.

 

[Rookery]

I wouldnt be in the least surprised to learn that there are several problems with this installation. Take lots of photos and write down what the fitter says. I feel you're going to need lots of info to back up your case.

 

[Flyingblind]

The individual tiles are about 25mm square, non slip wetroom tile. There is £700 outstanding to pay, but there are things yet to finish in the main bathroom. He says he wants to get finished and paid as soon as possible and thinks we are unreasonable because we are also insisting on our electrics certificate before we pay him anyway (I dont think thats unreasonable).

I picked the tiles, but showed him online before I bought them, and he said they would be fine. He selected or the hidden boring stuff.

We have a shower in the other bathroom that is nearly usable - although I dont know whether he will finish it if he senses a problem coming with the floor.

 

[Alan.P]

I'm going to be blunt, tell him no more payments until the job is fixed, my guess is he'll walk away, tell him you'll get an independent approved assessor in to asses the works and you'll see him in court, sounds like a chancer to me.

Sorry

 

[Del W]

Do not pay him anything untill you are happy.

 

[Flyingblind]

Thank you for all your replies and advice. I have been naive and learnt a lesson, my husband (and in this case only, better half) wanted to sack him weeks ago - but I have to admit that we were in too deep because I had advanced payments earlier than agreed for various sob stories. But now I am been assured that this looks like a serious problem with the floor, I am happy to stand my ground.

On a funny note, my other half challenged him on whether he was doing other jobs and thats why ours was taking so long, especially as there was an old shower pump in our skip that didnt belong to our job. He said absolutely not and it was something he did for a mate the other night. How pleased was I to see glowing reviews for him on a website for jobs he did in march 'he turned up and quoted for a new pump which he was able to install the same day, he even took away the old pump and disposed of it!!'........yes in our skip!!!!

 

[Alan.P]

Take pictures now, of the job above, damage below, adhesive and grout bags in the skip, everything in the skip ............. everything, in case of.

 

[AliGage]

Rolling rolling rolling, keep those wagons rolling. Rawhide!!

Looking forward to seeing pictures of this one!

 

[Lee@emctiles]

Sounds like a whole catalogue of disasters here.

I have an issue with the 25mm mosaic, these are not right for a wetroom showerlay. (see step 19 on this How to install level wet room kits)

Sorry to say but it sounds like you need a tiler who can come and sort your issues out, if your in Manchester, Look up Andy Carroll Tiling

 

[Andy Tiler]

Hi, I am after some advice from those in the know. We have had a wetroom installed, and the shower area has a marmox tray under mosaic tiles. Its been in about four weeks, and there are lines of grout coming away. The floor, when finished has always seemed to have too much 'give' and my husband asked the installer about it. He said that becasue it is a foam tray it will give. But if you place your foot on the tray and push down you can feel the whole area depress. Now, if you go back after a shower, and press on the flour, you can see water coming back up between the tiles. I obviously know that isnt right. But the question is very you should be able to feel the floor sink when you step on the shower area? My father stayed and he found it a really unsettling sensation the first time. The other question is whether there is such a thing as an independant assessor that we could get in to look at the floor to see if its OK?

Any help greatfully appreciated as I am flying blind!!

Hi flyingbird, I don't mind coming over to take a look to offer you some advice!
If your in the Manchester area??
Cheers Andy
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tiler+manchester&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#mldd=2

 

[Gazzer]

Hi flyingbird, I don't mind coming over to take a look to offer you some advice!
If your in the Manchester area??
Cheers Andy
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tiler+manchester&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#mldd=2

And thats the way the forum can work. Nice one Andy .

 

[DHTiling]

A common problem when installing these extruded foam trays , is lack of contact with adhesive and substrate etc... install incorrectly and you will get bounce in the tray..

I have seen quite a few fitted and refused to tile due to incompetent plumber.. The only solution as already said is to rip out and fix it solidly.. including tanking for water tightness.

Only 2 tilers i would recommend in your area and those are Andy carroll and son and Philip Hobson... either will do a perfect job.

 

[Flyingblind]

View attachment 51197 View attachment 51198

Again thank you for all the feedback and advice on this floor. I have attached some pictures of my lovely floor!! The good news is that as soon as I showed the fitter the floor on Friday he agreed that it wasnt right and is keen to sort it out. This was a relief as we have asked previously and told is was correct. I have flagged up that the size of tile may be an issue (thanks to rookery and L@tiletown for flagging this up) , he says he hasnt been made aware of a minimum tile size, so I have emailed him a MARMOX brochure I have found online. Unfortunately we have a new leak that seems to becoming from allong the the base of the wall tiles and the floor tiles. My husband has looked and cant see anything on the pipes. We know the area was tanked. Its bizarre, because we havent used the shower since last Wednesday, and the water is not dripping from inside the bathroom, we are positive its coming from behind the wall.
So we'll see what happens next.

 

[gamma38]

Hi flyingblind, I feel you have had some good advise here but i also think you have been taken for a ride, by the sound of it this guy doesn't really know what he is doing. I wouldn't let him continue with anything until you have had one of the guys here take a look at it for you and I wouldn't give him another penny for sure. Personally I think the standard of the tiling while far from the worst i've seen isn't great, and it's pretty common knowledge among fitters about the point loadings of mosaics, to say he has never heard of this rings alarm bells. I hope you get it sorted out but i don't think this guy is capable if i'm honest.

 

[White Room]

I take it there coming back to finish the grouting on the mosaics

 

[Time's Ran Out]

As others really - however this guy is not a plumber or a tiler!