Slate over differing floor types

[SteUK]

Hi all,

About to embark on laying slate in our kitchen and have a few questions I hope some kind person can help me with!

The floor is half vinyl tile, the brittle kind, well stuck down with self leveling fill where lose tiles have been lifted. The other half of the floor is a concrete base, again some self leveling. Having purchased tiles, adhesive, grout and impregnator from topps I am a little unsure as to what is the best method of prepping the floor. I have read that pva/water solution works prior to the adhesive, though I have read various posts suggesting benefits to using a primer or bonder. What would be best for my situation?

Next question! Advice given at topps was to use Bal adhesive with porcell bond (bag marked 'Wall and Floor Professional Tile Adhesive'). Is this the right adhesive for the job? Do I want to be adding something like admix?

Finally! Sealing...can 2 coats be laid on after grouting? Or does it have to be both before then a grout sealer after weeks of grout drying time? Every piece of advise I find on this seems to suggest something different!

Thanks be being such superb forum, every post read gives me more knowledge!

Thanks in advance.

Ste

 

[DHTiling]

Hi all,

About to embark on laying slate in our kitchen and have a few questions I hope some kind person can help me with!

The floor is half vinyl tile, the brittle kind, well stuck down with self leveling fill where lose tiles have been lifted. The other half of the floor is a concrete base, again some self leveling. Having purchased tiles, adhesive, grout and impregnator from topps I am a little unsure as to what is the best method of prepping the floor. I have read that pva/water solution works prior to the adhesive, though I have read various posts suggesting benefits to using a primer or bonder. What would be best for my situation?

Next question! Advice given at topps was to use Bal adhesive with porcell bond (bag marked 'Wall and Floor Professional Tile Adhesive'). Is this the right adhesive for the job? Do I want to be adding something like admix?

Finally! Sealing...can 2 coats be laid on after grouting? Or does it have to be both before then a grout sealer after weeks of grout drying time? Every piece of advise I find on this seems to suggest something different!

Thanks be being such superb forum, every post read gives me more knowledge!

Thanks in advance.

Ste

Hi ste..firstly welcome to the forums mate....

Never use pva to seal or prime a substrate.....
As long as the vinyl tiles are well secured then prime with an impregnating primer something like bal bond sbr..( tile within 24hrs of priming ).
That adhesive will be fine for your project....
Wipe the slate with a damp sponge on both sides to remove surface dust as you lay them..leave to dry...then give a coat of sealer..leave to dry..you can then grout taking care not get to get too much grout over the face of the tile as it will cling to the riven parts of the slate....clean the tiles and leave to dry..then clean again until satisfied they are clean then leave to dry and seal again once dry this will seal the joints as well....there are many types of sealers out there..I partically don't trust impregnator alone with slate.. i use an impregnator/sealer( polish) all in one..( lithofin slate sealer )....hope this helps and good luck with the job...

 

[Leatherface]

Hi mate

Please check that the vinyl tile are WELL SECURED - if not the will need to be removed or self levlelled over.
As far a cleaning and sealing - prior to grouting I always clean my slate with at least 3 changes of water - allow to dry thoroughly. Seal at least twice, usually 3 times. Grout ( taking special care to clean ridges of tiles - this is where grout can collect which cannot be seen until dry )
Seal again if necessary ( not usual if sealed 3 times before )

 

[SteUK]

Wow! Thanks for the super fast reply DH!

Bal bond sbr...comes only in 5L? It is diluted with water, right? I have around 14 square m to do...I am guessing 5L is way more than I need? Is Norcros Prime Bond as suitable? They seem to do a 1L bottle...

I washed all tiles as I was sorting them yesterday, soaked to the bone by the end! Some residue still remains so I guess another wipe when laying...

Will be using Fila Slate Impregnator/Sealer. Have read that grouting bags work pretty well with slate, so will be giving that a go.

So,

Clean, lay, seal with impreg/sealer, grout, clean, wait for grout to dry completely, seal the whole lot (tiles and grout) with impreg/sealer.

Thanks again, it is so good of you pros to give those that want to 'have a go' such valuable advice!

Ste

 

[DHTiling]

When priming vinyl tiles Ste it is best to use the sbr neat....As long as the sealer is suitable for priming vinyl tiles then no probs using another make...but read the instructions for usage.....

 

[SteUK]

I see, I see!

Use neat over the 2nd (concrete) half of the room also?

I am guessing neat, a single coat is enough? Should the floor be clean and, tiles, sanded to give a key first?

Any idea how far a 5L bottle goes neat?

Cheers!

Ste

 

[DHTiling]

You can water the sbr down to 4:1 on the concrete parts...a 5 ltr will do approx 30mtrs or so depending on how much you apply and how porous the floor is......
no need to sand the tiles...( i think thats wot you meant )....

 

[SteUK]

That is exactly what I meant!

Right...super...so with 13 or so square m to do, roughly a 50/50 splt between vinyl tiles and concrete the 2.5L bottle is a safe bet.

Thanks again for your time and all your advice!

Ste
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...and so I return to beg for more advice!

Washed the vinyl tile part of the floor tonight in prep for the bal bond sbr. After letting it dry I took a closed look at how clean it was. I noticed a fair few tiles have come away at the corners, no doubt from the water used in cleaning. Started to lift out the parts that wanted to come away by hand. Moving on to using a screw driver to make sure I was getting the parts not stuck down I can pretty much (sometimes with the aid of a hammer) get most of the tiles up. Not stuck down as well as I thought?

Is it best to lift all of them and use self leveling compound to level to the other half of the room (concrete)? If so, what is best practice for prep of the floor for the self leveling compound? Under the vinyl times is black...I assume adhesive for the tiles?

Help!

Thanks!!

Ste

 

[DHTiling]

ceratinly lift them up ste....use a deagreaser on the floor leave to dry then use sbr to prime it and if it needs self leveller then go ahead....

 

[SteUK]

Hi dh,

I called BAL today to ask them if I could use multibase on bitumen (I think that is what the black stuff is!?). They said absolutely no! Only on floor grade asphalt. Am now looking at scabbling the black stuff off. That way I could roughly level the other half of the room...prime...tile straight onto the concrete!

What do you recon??

 

[DHTiling]

It is probably just bitumen based adhesive....so no probs.. if it is a bitumen floor( substrate ) then its a different story....try and see if it scrapes back to concrete before you go any further....

 

[SteUK]

I have managed to scrape small parts away, it is only a thin layer. Looks like concrete under it! As you can kinda see in this pic...not the large area at the back of the pic, the small spots in the foreground. are bits scraped away.

 

[DHTiling]

hi ste.. just scrape all the loose bits off and prime with sbr 50/50 no probs mate trust me.... use a leveller(good quality) maybe something like ardex k15 ....

 

[SteUK]

I am still unsure! After what the guy at Bal tech said today...

Also, if I self level to the existing concrete (see pic below) will that cause issues with the slate? Is it not best to have one type of substrate? i.e. would it not be better to be taking the back concrete part down to the same level as the now 3mm lower old vinyl tile level?

Here are some more images...

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[GazTech]

Prepare just as dh sais..start in the highest room with graded thinner slates, when you get to the point where different levels meet, change across to the thicker ones ....hop this helps....Gaz