The next step - taking someone on???

[Grace'sDad]

I'm fortunate enough to be getting busier and busier now, to the point where I can't keep customers waiting longer that 6 weeks and so I lose the job. It's basically a need to turn jobs round faster right now, which I could do if I had another pair of hands.

Do any of you employ / work with / sub out to other tilers? What are your thoughts about the best way forward?

I don't want all the (as I see it) hassle of employing, so it would suit me for 6 months or so to have an invoice of someone else - pay them, and let them take care of their own tax and NI.

Ideally I'd like to work with someone young but reasonably capable and keen to learn. I know ultimately they will set up on their own and that you are in effect teaching your future competitors but hey! That's life!

What have you done / what would you do?
I would ideally like to make a little amount for all my efforts, after all, it's my reputation at work and on the line isn't it? Do you think a day rate of £80-£90 is enough to attract a capable youngster, obviously rising as things progress?

Your experiences in this area would be great - thanks in advance!

 

[White Room]

Many years ago had another plasterer working for me as a subby, I was having to put some of his work right but it was having the customer calling to say they were'nt happy with his work, Thats so fustrating trying to balance my work and putting someone else's right, Decided to stay on my own since. There good trades out there I just don't want the responsibility

 

[grumpygrouter]

I'm fortunate enough to be getting busier and busier now, to the point where I can't keep customers waiting longer that 6 weeks and so I lose the job. It's basically a need to turn jobs round faster right now, which I could do if I had another pair of hands.

Do any of you employ / work with / sub out to other tilers? What are your thoughts about the best way forward?

I don't want all the (as I see it) hassle of employing, so it would suit me for 6 months or so to have an invoice of someone else - pay them, and let them take care of their own tax and NI.

Ideally I'd like to work with someone young but reasonably capable and keen to learn. I know ultimately they will set up on their own and that you are in effect teaching your future competitors but hey! That's life!

What have you done / what would you do?
I would ideally like to make a little amount for all my efforts, after all, it's my reputation at work and on the line isn't it? Do you think a day rate of £80-£90 is enough to attract a capable youngster, obviously rising as things progress?

Your experiences in this area would be great - thanks in advance!

Strictly speaking 'Dad, you would need to register with the IR as a contractor if you were to get invoices from someone for work you are paying for. Less hassle than employment but hassle still the same. At the moment, it is taking several weeks to get set up as a contractor, running inot months, sometimes.

Think carefully about the way forward.

 

[tiler burden]

if i were you i wouldnt worry about taking someone on, on a self employed basis.

the inland rev will help you out with all you need to know, so dont be afraid to see them. you literally deduct there tax , they pay there own public laibility, they pay there own ni.

i would also look at taking someone on who is in there later 30's 40's etc. someone with a mortgage, kids and serious commitments. there are some good young kids out there but, they get all sorts of help finding work as opposed to maturer people and as you say, they are ambitious and think they can rule the world (probably can ;0) so maybe its better to get a person who just simply wants to work hard, and have a decent wage at the end of the week and a bit of experience....

just make sure the person shows a level of competence and determnation. set a few ground rules ie 3 month probabtion, they are prepared to buy there own tools and maybe transport. also so if they can get a grant towards there wages. some grants are offering 60 pound a week to the employer and they can get 60percent of the costs of course fees paid, so you could ask them to go on a tiling course, just so they can at least understand what adhesives to use, datum lines, highs and lows, basic setting out etc and some cutting techniques and more.

if you are to grow, then you have to take people on, so make sure they are committed. give incentives but make sure that the 10-15 meters a day they do are spot on, no exceptions....i would much rather have a tiler that produced 10 meters a day of exceptional tiling, than someone who produced 20 meters with a few imperfections. doesnt have to be necessarily rough to be bad, just a couple of lips here and there and a dodgy trim to make a job below par

ed

 

[Grace'sDad]

Thanks Grumpy - I know I've dipped a toe or two in the water on this subject already - what is the best way forward? That's the bit I'm struggling with!

I'm happy working on my own, but I'm sad to lose work over time factors.

 

[davy_G]

I was at the point of taking someone on before Christmas and left it 'till the new year to decide what to do. I decided against taking someone on fulltime as its more responsibility for not alot more money. So when im really busy i do one of two things:
1) A mate who is inbetween jobs (a able bodied retired local is ideal) comes along when i have big floors and mixes my adhesive and keeps me stocked in tiles. I throw him a few quid per day, maybe only use him one day a week when it suits us both.
2) for very big jobs i work with another tiler, we split these jobs 50:50 as he gets some and i get some of the leads. Good diary management is essential here to get us both free at the same time.

A few young chaps i spoke to wanted home at 5 every day and wanted me to pick them up. Dont think so, just not worth the time to teach them. Thats why it suits the way i do things, takes 5 mins to learn to mix addy.

Let me know what you decide and how it works out. For sure im not going to be any bigger or make any more money than i am now but i can guarantee my work and dont need to worry about another man if i have a quiet few days.

 

[enduro]

I have had people working for me in the past...Its a bloody nightmare, customers moaning, going back and putting right there work, them not turning up for work, them nicking your customers...Shall i go on!!!! If your that busy do what i do, put my prices up....I would rather do 10 jobs at £100 than do 100 jobs at £10, get my point

 

[CLAYS TILES]

good luck dad in which ever way you decide!

 

[Highlander]

I have had people working for me in the past...Its a bloody nightmare, customers moaning, going back and putting right there work, them not turning up for work, them nicking your customers...Shall i go on!!!! If your that busy do what i do, put my prices up....I would rather do 10 jobs at £100 than do 100 jobs at £10, get my point

I am with enduro here I had two vans on the road two guys and I am now back to me and small van. I am making more money now than I did with the other guys working for me. No overheads with them burning fuel visiting friends and doing homers with my gear, no having to go back and repair jobs, not having customers calling to say where are you its 11am and no one is here.

And as enduro says no one nicking your customers walked in one day and heard a plumber asking if my guy was still on to do the job for his customer at weekend :mad2: I then asked plumber is it ok for his guys to do homers answer no so I ask why is it ok for my guy.

So no more guys working for me for moment and if I did take anyone on I might consider a young guy so I can train him the way I work not an older guy that does it his way weither it is right or wrong.

Best of luck with what you decide but remember one thing if you get quiet you have to find their wages before your own.

Highlander

 

[wetdec]

i

i would also look at taking someone on who is in there later 30's 40's etc. someone with a mortgage, kids and serious commitments. there are some good young kids out there but, they get all sorts of help finding work as opposed to maturer people and as you say, they are ambitious and think they can rule the world (probably can ;0) so maybe its better to get a person who just simply wants to work hard, and have a decent wage at the end of the week and a bit of experience....

just make sure the person shows a level of competence and determnation. set a few ground rules ie 3 month probabtion, they are prepared to buy there own tools and maybe transport. also so if they can get a grant towards there wages. some grants are offering 60 pound a week to the employer and they can get 60percent of the costs of course fees paid, so you could ask them to go on a tiling course, just so they can at least understand what adhesives to use, datum lines, highs and lows, basic setting out etc and some cutting techniques and more.

if you are to grow, then you have to take people on, so make sure they are committed. give incentives but make sure that the 10-15 meters a day they do are spot on, no exceptions....i would much rather have a tiler that produced 10 meters a day of exceptional tiling, than someone who produced 20 meters with a few imperfections. doesnt have to be necessarily rough to be bad, just a couple of lips here and there and a dodgy trim to make a job below par

ed

Now that is good advice


One thing to remember is another pair of hands will not be another pair of yours and you have a reputation to take care of :yes:


tiler


..

 

[grumpygrouter]

Thanks Grumpy - I know I've dipped a toe or two in the water on this subject already - what is the best way forward? That's the bit I'm struggling with!

I'm happy working on my own, but I'm sad to lose work over time factors.

'Dad, if it was me and in your position of having to give work away, first thing I would consider is what Enduro has done - lift my prices a bit. If you are still having to turn work away after a while my next consideration would be subbing out. There is less admin to mess around with but you really need to find someone that is good and able to maintain your rep. Logically, if the guy is that good he would have his own waiting list, so a bit of a catch 22!

Supply and demand is the big driver. Lift your prices, have less physical work to do but up your income. Always a nice situation to be in, IMO.

 

[graham31]

Hi i had a apprentice in my old trade (panel beating) he was no good found myself fixing his work more often than not.You may say he was only an apprentice but this guy was in his forth year and should have been workin himself.I found my reputation as a panel beater was taking a beating(sorry) cause their was so many mistakes.Eventually he started to work himself he had no choice,when this happened i found myself working faster and making more money and had little or no comebacks.

Basically what i'm saying hired help isn't always the way forward they can drag you down instead of doing what their meant to do and make you money

 

[Grace'sDad]

Big thanks to everyone for the replies.

I am being well and truly steered away from taking someone on now and if I can learn from your ballaches - great!

It makes perfect sense to raise prices. I never really thought of the pyschology of it until now. If a customer thinks "heck, he's expensive - but then again he's also really busy, so he must be good!" - that can only look good can't it?
If you get the job - Great!
If not - your reputation has had a boost.

One thing cropped up this week end - I may have the option of working with my Dad approx 3 days a week. He's looking to move house and simplify work. There's someone I can trust - he taught me!

Cheers guys

 

[robbo]

Big thanks to everyone for the replies.

I am being well and truly steered away from taking someone on now and if I can learn from your ballaches - great!

It makes perfect sense to raise prices. I never really thought of the pyschology of it until now. If a customer thinks "heck, he's expensive - but then again he's also really busy, so he must be good!" - that can only look good can't it?
If you get the job - Great!
If not - your reputation has had a boost.

One thing cropped up this week end - I may have the option of working with my Dad approx 3 days a week. He's looking to move house and simplify work. There's someone I can trust - he taught me!

Cheers guys

Working with ya Dad would be great m8, one person you can trust and ya can't buy experience!!!

 

[pjtiler]

aye
and your dads the best mate youll ever have