Tile install help/advice needed ASAP

[mcu]

Ok guys i am ready to roll (at least I think so) floor is clean, chalklined my lines and now laid the first row without glue. What is confusing me is that I am doing an entire floor (entrance room, hall which splits to another small hall with hardwood, dinette, kitchen. Also I have a circular stairs and two doorways to living and dining room with hardwood. Since I am using the QEP LASH leveling system and need to meet to my other rooms, how should I be starting this? I don't think doing a "T" which is how I have tiled in the past would be such a great idea because i need everything to match and can not tile everything in one whole day. Tips/advice please? Here is a quick floor plan to give you an idea. I have 1700 ft2 and using 24x24" tiles over an existing tile. I will be using Mapei Ultraflex LFT with 1/8" grout lines

Thanks

 

[nybor62]

1st thing you should,nt be tiling on top of tiles imo.

 

[mcu]

1st thing you should,nt be tiling on top of tiles imo.

agreed, in an ideal situation but in this case we decided to....care to comment on the rest please

 

[nybor62]

make a staff and mark the size of tile inc spacer. that way you can check what size cuts will land against walls and kitch units, centre your main floor

the entrance hall doorway you could put a threshold tile there the width of door frame
then set out again from there , so it works down the other small hall
center entrance hall as well, hope this makes sense

 

[mcu]

make a staff and mark the size of tile inc spacer. that way you can check what size cuts will land against walls and kitch units, centre your main floor

the entrance hall doorway you could put a threshold tile there the width of door frame
then set out again from there , so it works down the other small hall
center entrance hall as well, hope this makes sense

maybe i expressed my concerns wrong. Yes I did this part already, evening out the cuts so that the main hall has two cuts on each side of even size. This part was math which i understand My main concern was since i am not making the floor 100% level and following the old floor with now much larger tiles, how do I make sure i have no surprises mid way during the install where I have been installing the tiles too high or too low to meet with the rest?

 

[Rich]

So its the levels you are worried about not the setting out of the tiles/cuts? If you are not going to level the floor then spend a bit of time with a long level and mark out where you have high points and low points. If you can get your hands on a laser level then set it up at a determined hight and then measure from the floor to the laser line all over the area that is to be tiled, this will give you idea of the shape of the floor.

 

[mcu]

i did this with laser to see a few high and low points. on the entire floor from the lowest to the highest point i have about 3/8" difference (mostly against the end of walls) but because they are in different rooms, does it matter? can't i just lift the tile or lower it a bit? I could do that easily with 12"x12" tile but this is my first time with 24x24". I am using a 1/2" trowel.

How would you tile? small sections at a time of make a "L" or "T" from one end to the other?

 

[jay]

May i ask what substrate is under the existing tiles and are there any cracks or changes in surfaces (tiles to timber or vinyl ect)

 

[mcu]

there is a sandcoat/mudpack under the existing tiles and I have scuffed the entire floor with a diamond cup wheel just to remove the glaze to ensure better adhesion. Everything is solid except for a few which we broke and a couple that were missing under kitchen cabinets but will fill those with extra thinset (not sure if I do it as I tile or prepare that the day before). Wherever we extended or moved walls I used a double plywood with a cementboard on top (my deflection ration was L/740)

 

[Mike Mike]

If I have understood the conversions correctly, you're tiling 157m2 with 600mmx600mm tiles, have a 9.5mm difference in floor height over that area, split between 3 rooms, but not in the doorways where the rooms adjoin, and you're using a 12.7mm trowel. That right?

I can't completely visualise the layout of the hallway, kitchen and other room(s) (picture would help) but your concern is that you do not start in separate rooms and then meet in the doorways to find a difference in height, right?


If the layout permits it I would start in the main hallway and tile through the doorways of each adjoining room as far as practical, then finish the main hallway on Day 1. Then for the other rooms start tiling FROM the doorway and into the room. Obviously unless there are other exits you may have to leave a section to walk/crawl back down, but you're using a 3 hour rapid set, so not the end of the world. Depending where exactly that 9.5mm difference in floor height occurs you might be able to lose it with adhesive, or if it is severe and mainly in one room, or bad in one room, then level it before you start.

I would use a bigger trowel than that personally, maybe 20mm, which the translator tool says is "Just under 13/16 Inch" :lol:. Especially as you'll be using the LASH system as those levelling systems have a tendency to pull the tiles up and away from the adhesive. It is not unheard of to end up with hollowpoints if the bed isn't thick enough...

 

[kilty55]

600 by 600 tiles on an unlevel already tiled surface...the only advice im going to give you is to lift the tiles and prepare it properly.

the lash clip system may leave voids especially on those large tiles.

 

[mcu]

If I have understood the conversions correctly, you're tiling 157m2 with 600mmx600mm tiles, have a 9.5mm difference in floor height over that area, split between 3 rooms, but not in the doorways where the rooms adjoin, and you're using a 12.7mm trowel. That right?

I can't completely visualise the layout of the hallway, kitchen and other room(s) (picture would help) but your concern is that you do not start in separate rooms and then meet in the doorways to find a difference in height, right?


If the layout permits it I would start in the main hallway and tile through the doorways of each adjoining room as far as practical, then finish the main hallway on Day 1. Then for the other rooms start tiling FROM the doorway and into the room. Obviously unless there are other exits you may have to leave a section to walk/crawl back down, but you're using a 3 hour rapid set, so not the end of the world. Depending where exactly that 9.5mm difference in floor height occurs you might be able to lose it with adhesive, or if it is severe and mainly in one room, or bad in one room, then level it before you start.

I would use a bigger trowel than that personally, maybe 20mm, which the translator tool says is "Just under 13/16 Inch" :lol:. Especially as you'll be using the LASH system as those levelling systems have a tendency to pull the tiles up and away from the adhesive. It is not unheard of to end up with hollowpoints if the bed isn't thick enough...

There is a pic of my layout on my first post. Does it not open for you guys? I am not using a rapid set. I think the LFT has a rapid set and non rapid set. I have never seen a 13/16". 1/2" is biggest I was able to find. if i find a 13/16", how much height would that add to the final product ones i push down the tiles, use the lash clips and backbutter the tiles?

 

[bugs183]

I use lash clips quite a bit, (see other threads),but as the guys above say you will get hollow spots if the floor is not prepared properly.
Lash clips are not a replacement for poor preparation, especially with floors.
You are using 600x600 tiles, these take some fixing, and by the sounds of your questions i don't think you've laid many like this before.

As above my advise is be sensible, get the floor flat before you begin, use thick bed adhesive in the holes and level over with a good quality Self leveller, i find Mapei Renovation Screed lovely to use.
If you proceed as you are you will use a ton of adhesive trying to get this floor to look any where near acceptable. You may as well have used leveller instead, and made your life a whole load easier.

Prepare the floor, tile the hall first as a: The rooms all run of this so the hall dictates how the rooms connect, B: I bet it is the most awkward part of the job cutting wise, get the awkward out the way first, then you can enjoy the job.

Don't try and rush this one, and listen to what the fella's say, they know their stuff, and they are happy to pass on information without judging your methods, a rare thing indeed!!

 

[swanman]

Look

Do your self a favour and start from scratch

Lift all the tiles and get back to the substrate.Then level through leave to dry come back next day.

Start your layout as swedish mike said ,start in the hallway then go off into the rooms.Thats the best way

Good Luck with your project

 

[mcu]

Look

Do your self a favour and start from scratch

Lift all the tiles and get back to the substrate.Then level through leave to dry come back next day.

Start your layout as swedish mike said ,start in the hallway then go off into the rooms.Thats the best way

Good Luck with your project

If I remove the tile, then will have to redo the mudpack/sandcoat and that will take much more than a day...more like a week for me especially with having to remove the old.

 

[Mike Mike]

There is a pic of my layout on my first post. Does it not open for you guys? I am not using a rapid set. I think the LFT has a rapid set and non rapid set. I have never seen a 13/16". 1/2" is biggest I was able to find. if i find a 13/16", how much height would that add to the final product ones i push down the tiles, use the lash clips and backbutter the tiles?

Page 21, thick bed solid bed trowel, 20mm notches gives 3 - 4mm bed thickness.

Broken Link Removed

Sorry, couldn't see that picture, white drawing on a white screen background. I would start in the top right corner of the kitchen and take full rows down from there. As I said earlier, go into the doorways of all the adjoining rooms as you go, and when tiling those rooms on a separate day, tile from the doorway and into the room to ensure you keep the same levels.

Good luck! Friday night, pub now!

p.s. You need to switch to the metric system. It's time. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[mcu]

I use lash clips quite a bit, (see other threads),but as the guys above say you will get hollow spots if the floor is not prepared properly.
Lash clips are not a replacement for poor preparation, especially with floors.
You are using 600x600 tiles, these take some fixing, and by the sounds of your questions i don't think you've laid many like this before.

As above my advise is be sensible, get the floor flat before you begin, use thick bed adhesive in the holes and level over with a good quality Self leveller, i find Mapei Renovation Screed lovely to use.
If you proceed as you are you will use a ton of adhesive trying to get this floor to look any where near acceptable. You may as well have used leveller instead, and made your life a whole load easier.

Prepare the floor, tile the hall first as a: The rooms all run of this so the hall dictates how the rooms connect, B: I bet it is the most awkward part of the job cutting wise, get the awkward out the way first, then you can enjoy the job.

Don't try and rush this one, and listen to what the fella's say, they know their stuff, and they are happy to pass on information without judging your methods, a rare thing indeed!!

I definately appreciate all the tips/advice here from everyone!! Since you use LASH quite a bit, do you use a 1/2" trowel? Do you backbutter every tile? If I drylay the tiles first, how much would be the most acceptable one tile could be higher than another in a corner or side? whats the max we can adjust with a LASH clip without it being void?

 

[bugs183]

I use a 12mm trowel, to give you a good adhesive bed, and i would back butter every tile, which i would do with large format tiles anyway.
There is no certain depth that a lash clip will work to without voiding, you can only tell if a tile is properly bedded by feel, or by lifting every tile up and seeing how the adhesive is bedding, any experienced tile knows this, you can't put a measure on it.
Lash clips only help the tiling from above, ie the tiles will look lovely and flat, but if the floor is not flat underneath and the tiler doesn't have the experience then these clips are NO substitute for good fixing.
We cannot stress enough that if your floor is not prepared properly then these large format tiles are totally unforgiving and you will have problems.