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Discuss Tile moving and grout breaking in the Tiling on Underfloor Heating area at TilersForums.com.
I have hive thermostat. Kept the thermostat on the tile, it gave me a temperature and then I set the target to 1 degree higher than what was displayed. Once it be hit the target it would automatically cut off heating. This was the method followed.It is not possible on most ufh systems to increase the temperature by 1C. I’m interested to know how you achieved this?
hi @Dave so it seems like I need to get the work surveyed by a pro tiler, get a report of all what's wrong, get a quote of redoing the work and then confront the tiler with the facts. They are not picking my phone. So logically am thinking how can I get them to listen. Possibly send them a legal letter illustrating the case? What do you reckon?If it’s not primed, then it’s failed due to ettringite formation due to reaction with the cementitious based adhesive and the gypsum content of the screed. No other fix than a full rip out and prepping correctly will work. A full lack of knowledge by your tile installer.
Irrelevant! She’s established it’s not been primed. You don’t even need to have ufh for this to happen. It’s a chemical reaction between screed and cement!Your use of the room stat to control the temperature is an in appropriate way to do it. The flow temperature of the water within the screed is the important bit. That can only be controlled at the mixing valve or the boiler. That is why you cannot really control it as finely as 1C per day. Using the stat controls the room temp not the glow temp. My gut feeling is that the incoming temperature has been too high and has shocked the floor and that is the reason for the tiles popping.
I missed that it hadn’t been primed. That won’t help either depending on the adhesive used of course… (I might have missed that as well)Irrelevant! She’s established it’s not been primed. You don’t even need to have ufh for this to happen. It’s a chemical reaction between screed and cement!
in all fairness bud, adhesive won’t play a part either, what happens is,as this type of screed dries the moisture rises to the top as it dries and forms a mineral on top, in effect a barrier between floor and tile,(so your sticking to the mineral and not the floor,this needs to be ground/sanded off then primed twice, one diluted,usually 1 part primer 3 parts water which will soak in and when dried,you will then go over again with neat primer.I missed that it hadn’t been primed. That won’t help either depending on the adhesive used of course… (I might have missed that as well)
Hmm… best not get into a debate about anhydrite…in all fairness bud, adhesive won’t play a part either, what happens is,as this type of screed dries the moisture rises to the top as it dries and forms a mineral on top, in effect a barrier between floor and tile,(so your sticking to the mineral and not the floor,this needs to be ground/sanded off then primed twice, one diluted,usually 1 part primer 3 parts water which will soak in and when dried,you will then go over again with neat primer.
Because even after sanding the calcium screed reacts all cement based adhesives hence the need to prime
Hi @Dan , I sent another letter which was the letter before court action. The tiler called me straight after receiving the letter and offered to visit. They brought someone with them as a mediator. We have them a tour of the shoddy work they had done but I wasn't surprised when they didn't accept any responsibility. Kept on blaming us by saying they applied what we had provided and that all liability lies with us. The mediator was more level headed and saw the argument for what it was. After numerous hours of phone calls we have another follow up on a few weeks time. The tiler did say they would rip and put the tiles down again this time with preparation. But the tiles have to be provided by us. We are going to speak again to see what their proposal is and maybe come to a compromise. I don't know if going to court is fruitful. From what I have read, the court will also recommend mediation. And am not sure if the court can mandate that the tiler pay the damages in full if the case decision is in my favor. It would be good to get some clarity if it's worth pursuing or not. New tiles aren't going to be cheap and we will have to live through the disruption.A long shot. But there may be hope.
Any update now given the time passed?
Hey Rutters, the mat was mentioned to us by Topps Tiles as recommended but the tiler didn't. I will keep that in mind for the rework. They aren't cheap as you said but a job well done says all this hassle.Not sure if this has been mentioned on this thread but I've seen this happen before on the type of screed described. And this was when the screed was dust free, primed with acrylic primer several times with movement joints installed and flexible cement based adhesive used as per manufacturer guidelines. What I believe solves this problem would be to install a decoupling Matting such as Ditra or a similar product. The substrate would need to have dried properly and prepared properly prior to fixing the Matt with flexible adhesive. Yes the cost would be more for the customer but it would avoid what's been explained in this thread.
Hi @Slippery thanks for the advice. Am going to talk to the tiler and his mediator and see where we can find common ground. The work will have to be done early summer next year now that we have started using the heating in the house.taking the matter to court will cost thousands and take at least a year.
It's unfortunate but I would offer to pay for new tiles (if the old ones cannot be saved) and let him pay for adhesive and primer and provide the labour.
Small claims court is your way forward I feel.Hi @Dan , I sent another letter which was the letter before court action. The tiler called me straight after receiving the letter and offered to visit. They brought someone with them as a mediator. We have them a tour of the shoddy work they had done but I wasn't surprised when they didn't accept any responsibility. Kept on blaming us by saying they applied what we had provided and that all liability lies with us. The mediator was more level headed and saw the argument for what it was. After numerous hours of phone calls we have another follow up on a few weeks time. The tiler did say they would rip and put the tiles down again this time with preparation. But the tiles have to be provided by us. We are going to speak again to see what their proposal is and maybe come to a compromise. I don't know if going to court is fruitful. From what I have read, the court will also recommend mediation. And am not sure if the court can mandate that the tiler pay the damages in full if the case decision is in my favor. It would be good to get some clarity if it's worth pursuing or not. New tiles aren't going to be cheap and we will have to live through the disruption.
Nonsense.taking the matter to court will cost thousands and take at least a year.
It's unfortunate but I would offer to pay for new tiles (if the old ones cannot be saved) and let him pay for adhesive and primer and provide the labour.
Hi @AliGage , thanks for responding. I haven't come across anyone bar you till date who is advocating going down the small claims court. I would like to get your perspective on this.Hi everyone.
So I've been out the game for a few years after a serious hand injury. Just getting back into the swing of things.
I can't believe it took until page 4 of responses before anyone mentioned sanding/removing the latence from the screed. This needs to be done on anhydrate screeds before you even think of priming it.
Small claims court is your way forward I feel.
A judge can order a QS to survey and provide a report and estimated cost of repair.
I perhaps would get a few quotes prior in preparation. Not sure I'd want the same guy back to fix it to be honest.
QS costs and cost of repair (including replacing tiles) will be a cost bared by the respondent
Nonsense.
Small claims court, can do it online. Is a fairly quick process and last time I had to go through it it was about £150
So sorry to hear about it all! It sucks.
But you know how it should be done now so know what to watch out for.
Do you have a tiler now then or are you tackling it?
Hey @Dan, we are starting the project to relay the tiles.No no you're right to do some testing with him. Decoupler and flexi-everything (adhesive and grout) and you should be all gravy.
Reply to Tile moving and grout breaking in the Tiling on Underfloor Heating area at TilersForums.com