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I suppose that's why our experience in dealing with crap helps us establish Good reputations were we can more or less name our price within reason.
Then again if it's too bad and other trades are required then so be it
More like ploughed fields Lee
Thankyou. I don’t think it’s been spot fixed, I remember them laying it and the whole floor was covered in stuff I think? That last picture is before they cut the tile for round the radiator pipes.
Could the fact it’s been fixed to ply have caused the crack?
Does that lippage look like it conforms to industry standards? Does any of it conform to industry standards?!
Discuss Tiling Standards in the Tilers' Talk - All Other Countries area at TilersForums.com.
L
LM
I have to deal with clark of works a lot and the above is exactly right, to simplify it if a pound coin which is 3mm can fit anywhere under a two metre straight edge anywhere on the substrate then the substrate is out of tolerence and a quick tip is to tape a pound coin to both edges of a 2 metre straight edge an use two pound coins on the floor
L
LM
Actually if everyone before us is made leave their work to acceptable standards then it's easier for us to leave a good job and so on
L
LM
You just need to price for correct prep
L
LM
Lol, but that's what comes with the territory with some private jobs
I suppose that's why our experience in dealing with crap helps us establish Good reputations were we can more or less name our price within reason.Then again if it's too bad and other trades are required then so be it
F
Flintstone
L
Lee daykin
hi., first time on here,
But thought I’d give it a go.!
I’m trying to find clarification as to who is responsible for tiling to floors within nhbc standards on site.
We have major issues with uneven floors/screeds.
We have the groundworkers insisting they are laid tolerance, and we have our 3mm at each end of a 2m straight edge tolerance when tiling.
There is a grey are In between the two., as to who is responsible to Make the screed flat to tile to., and indeed whether tiles should be laid to level., or laid to flat.
The screeds are allowed a tolerance of 25 mm out of level over 6 m., which begs the question if we lay level to that maximum tolerance, who is responsible for extra costs involved.
This way also throws up issues at doorways if one end of the house is 25mm higher than the other.
Any bonefide nhbc info would be greatly accepted!!
Thanks lee
But thought I’d give it a go.!
I’m trying to find clarification as to who is responsible for tiling to floors within nhbc standards on site.
We have major issues with uneven floors/screeds.
We have the groundworkers insisting they are laid tolerance, and we have our 3mm at each end of a 2m straight edge tolerance when tiling.
There is a grey are In between the two., as to who is responsible to Make the screed flat to tile to., and indeed whether tiles should be laid to level., or laid to flat.
The screeds are allowed a tolerance of 25 mm out of level over 6 m., which begs the question if we lay level to that maximum tolerance, who is responsible for extra costs involved.
This way also throws up issues at doorways if one end of the house is 25mm higher than the other.
Any bonefide nhbc info would be greatly accepted!!
Thanks lee
L
LM
The builder is supposed to provide you with a floor fit for tiling, within standards. If it’s not then you should ask him to correct it by either grinding down high spots or levelling low points or in most cases both. If he doesn’t want to do it then he should pay you to do it. If not then walk imo. Begin as you mean to go on, if you start tiling sub standard screeds he’ll expect you to do the same on every other floor.
L
Lee daykin
Hi lee thanks for your reply.
Generally the builders pay us to level the floors. Which we do with a 3m straight Edge and staff it off of the highest points, filling in the dips. Then tile to our 2m +\- 3mm tolerance
The argument now is that we do this to flat and not level. If we went to level, we could have steps at doorways., unless we level the entire house which is obviously not an option.
I guess what I’m looking for is clarification over the level or flat debate.! The is issue on this occasion is that they now want the hallway tiled after having tiled the kitchen to flat., the hallway has a hump
In it, and they’re trying to put it on us that if the floor was tiled to level the jump would not be an issue.
However there would have been a step at the doorway originally. Hope this all makes sense!
Thanks
Generally the builders pay us to level the floors. Which we do with a 3m straight Edge and staff it off of the highest points, filling in the dips. Then tile to our 2m +\- 3mm tolerance
The argument now is that we do this to flat and not level. If we went to level, we could have steps at doorways., unless we level the entire house which is obviously not an option.
I guess what I’m looking for is clarification over the level or flat debate.! The is issue on this occasion is that they now want the hallway tiled after having tiled the kitchen to flat., the hallway has a hump
In it, and they’re trying to put it on us that if the floor was tiled to level the jump would not be an issue.
However there would have been a step at the doorway originally. Hope this all makes sense!
Thanks
L
LM
When the screed is installed it has three datums that it has to meet which should all be the same, the exterior door sills, the bottom of the interior door frames and the bottom of the stairs. If the screed is meeting all these points then it can't be too far out and if it isn't then there's going to be major issues. If the floor is so far out in the hall the front door probably wont open and the bottom riser height of the stair will be out of acceptable limits for building control. If it's that bad have them take it out and replace it.
are you talking screed or concrete.
Surely levelling the floor is a contractual issue.
As you rightly say flat and level are different things. I would think flat is more important than level if there is only 25mm fall over 6m.
The screed standards and the concrete standards are generally not very explicit about specific requirements for flatness or levelness. But the contractor will presumably have a specification for the concrete and you will have a specification for the tiling requirements which should be explicit.
Surely levelling the floor is a contractual issue.
As you rightly say flat and level are different things. I would think flat is more important than level if there is only 25mm fall over 6m.
The screed standards and the concrete standards are generally not very explicit about specific requirements for flatness or levelness. But the contractor will presumably have a specification for the concrete and you will have a specification for the tiling requirements which should be explicit.
L
LM
If I were you and you didn’t want to ditch the job then I’d just charge for my pain. I’m well experienced at dealing with pathetic floors (@John Benton) I’ll do what I have to so long as it makes financial sense. Sooner or later the QS will realise that it’s cheaper to employ professional Screeder’s to do the job properly than to pay you to sort out bad screeds.
More like ploughed fields Lee
L
Lee daykin
Hi gents..
So after a day of emails and phone calls for future reference.
I have it from the horses mouth that is our local nhbc inspector..
screeds are allowed a tolerance of 25mm over 6m, or 4mm per m.
As w knew, and the tolerance for tiling is -/+ 3mm over a 2m srraight edge.
Straight edge being the key word. Not level.
So if the kitchen for example is laid to flat, and then the hallway or any adjoing Room needs tiling as an afterthought., any undulations in that are are treated as a separate entity, and need grinding down/levelling to suit..
thanks for all the reply’s., so kind as someone else is covering the costs then all good.!!
Cheers lee
So after a day of emails and phone calls for future reference.
I have it from the horses mouth that is our local nhbc inspector..
screeds are allowed a tolerance of 25mm over 6m, or 4mm per m.
As w knew, and the tolerance for tiling is -/+ 3mm over a 2m srraight edge.
Straight edge being the key word. Not level.
So if the kitchen for example is laid to flat, and then the hallway or any adjoing Room needs tiling as an afterthought., any undulations in that are are treated as a separate entity, and need grinding down/levelling to suit..
thanks for all the reply’s., so kind as someone else is covering the costs then all good.!!
Cheers lee
J
Julia84
I posted yesterday about the poor job that has been made of our shower wall tiles. Since then I’ve become something of an expert on tiling (haha) and have another query regarding our floor tiles. The lippage seems excessive in areas. Photos of the worst area below. Is that acceptable?
Further more this week I’ve found a cracked floor tile that definitely wasn’t there before. No one remembers dropping anything on the floor but it kind of looks like a blunt force from above so I am willing to accept it must be something we’ve done. However, given the poor job elsewhere there’s a slight concern this is due to the way the tiles have been laid?
Bathroom all 7 months old. Will include a picture of when the tiles were being laid.
Thanks!
Further more this week I’ve found a cracked floor tile that definitely wasn’t there before. No one remembers dropping anything on the floor but it kind of looks like a blunt force from above so I am willing to accept it must be something we’ve done. However, given the poor job elsewhere there’s a slight concern this is due to the way the tiles have been laid?
Bathroom all 7 months old. Will include a picture of when the tiles were being laid.
Thanks!
H
hmtiling
I'm afraid it's atrocious. Both in method and finish
J
Julia84
Could you elaborate so I can question them when they come round tomorrow?
H
hmtiling
Fi
Was it a general builder by chance?
It's been spot fixed and fixed to ply. Should have been overboarded with cement board, levelled then tiled use a notched trowel.
Was it a general builder by chance?
J
Julia84
By spot fixed do you mean dot and dab? As
Thankyou. I don’t think it’s been spot fixed, I remember them laying it and the whole floor was covered in stuff I think? That last picture is before they cut the tile for round the radiator pipes.
Could the fact it’s been fixed to ply have caused the crack?
Does that lippage look like it conforms to industry standards? Does any of it conform to industry standards?!
D
Dumbo
Surely the best way to get new houses tiled correctly using to correct preparation materials is for the likes of NHBC not to sign houses off If they have tiles on ply walls . Heavy tiles on skimmed walls etc . Surely the the tta should canvas them explaining risks associated with bad instalation .Or is it NHBC don't care because they don't pay out either
D
Dumbo
They would soon learn to read if guarantee man wasn't signing it off and mortgage man then wouldn't release the money to client who needs it to make stage payment .
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