Tiling to wood/ply substrates

[Ian]

Following on from the gypsum thread, who still ply lines a wooden substrate before tiling? With cement boards and decoupling membranes better suited to the job, why still use ply? I don't mind tiling to ply boxings or even bath panels but, won't even consider tiling over a ply lined floor.

 

[DP Tiling]

In an ideal world we would always tile to cement board or a decoupler if we can. Personally I find a lot of the time customers don't want to pay the extra money to overboard or lay a decoupler, if the ply is in good condition and screwed down properly I will tile to it but I will advise the customer that cement board has so many advantages and leave the decision up to them.

I will insist, however, if stone is to be put down there is too much instability in ply and tiles with veins and fissures just can't cope with the movement. This is my opinion after a friend of mine had a series of costly failures when fixing travertine to ply for a builder in multiple houses. (he even used 2 part s2).

 

[Stef]

Exact same as you Bri, very rarely I tile to ply & always insist that floor gets overboarded with Hardie or a thermal board.
If the client uses wbp ply then I probably will but it's normally cheap rubbish that delaminates & isn't a suitable surface to tile to.

 

[Sean SML Tiling]

For me it's either cement board or decoupler. If they don't like it they can lump it in my eyes. If the ply isn't fixed with adhesive then there will be voids underneath then when the tile gets fixed there will be movement and will cause the grout to crack.

 

[area tiling]

How many of us lay a decoupler over the top of ply ??

 

[Qwerty]

How many of us lay a decoupler over the top of ply ??

Always. Either that or tile backer board.

 

[Stocks Tiles]

Job I start tomorrow is on 18mm or 22mm marine ply, been tiled before had no problems but they're having every room done again with different tiles, the adhesive is still stuck to the board I have allowed to cement board and screw over the top (going to try scrape first), wondering now if would be easier to just decouple it? The floors solid reason I instantly went cement board is that they're having a huge bath weighing over 150kg! Better to over price than under right??

I will only tile to ply overboard if customer agrees in writing that any cracking problems etc are not my problem, not worth the hassle for me for the future! I've always decoupled only recently started using cement boards!

 

[Russell brown]

Has anyone used no more ply? Materials are hard to get around here unless you want to pay over the odds but a local tile shop stocks these. I've always used ply and never had a problem but I'm always willing to learn. The property we're in the kitchen floor was tiled 20+ yrs ago, the substrate is T&G chipboard which has been covered in experiment and tiled onto. No cracks or lose tiles?.

 

[White Room]

Always. Either that or tile backer board.

Job I start tomorrow is on 18mm or 22mm marine ply, been tiled before had no problems but they're having every room done again with different tiles, the adhesive is still stuck to the board I have allowed to cement board and screw over the top (going to try scrape first), wondering now if would be easier to just decouple it? The floors solid reason I instantly went cement board is that they're having a huge back weighing over 150kg! Better to over price than under right??

I will only tile to ply overboard if customer agrees in writing that any cracking problems etc are not my problem, not worth the hassle for me for the future! I've always decoupled only recently started using cement boards!

Has anyone used no more ply? Materials are hard to get around here unless you want to pay over the odds but a local tile shop stocks these. I've always used ply and never had a problem but I'm always willing to learn. The property we're in the kitchen floor was tiled 20+ yrs ago, the substrate is T&G chipboard which has been covered in experiment and tiled onto. No cracks or lose tiles?.

Lost me on both counts there....

 

[Stocks Tiles]

Haha sorry bloody phone, BATH

 

[Russell brown]

Predictive text!

Expamet mesh

 

[Russell brown]

Used hardibacker for the first time today and I have to say I'm not impressed!. Not sure if it's because I've never used it and did it without seeing it done but can't say that I'm impressed. Will definitely give it another go but it's a hell of a lot dearer than ply. 5 boards 3 bags of screws and adhesive was around £100!.

 

[Stef]

Used hardibacker for the first time today and I have to say I'm not impressed!. Not sure if it's because I've never used it and did it without seeing it done but can't say that I'm impressed. Will definitely give it another go but it's a hell of a lot dearer than ply. 5 boards 3 bags of screws and adhesive was around £100!.

What screws did you use & where did you purchase the Hardie?

 

[Russell brown]

Used hardibacker screws and purchased it from topps, I have an account with them. For what little discount you get!

 

[Stef]

Used hardibacker screws and purchased it from topps, I have an account with them. For what little discount you get!

No wonder you were as expensive.
Screwfix for 4x25 turbo golds or toolstation for reisser 4x25s need 35 screws per board & I could have fixed 5 Hardie boards with one 20kg bag of addy.
Half the price easily.

 

[Russell brown]

Used about 3/4 a bag. Still not impressed but I'll give it another go. Still think far eastern ply is better, wbp and marine ply are crap!.

 

[p4ulo]

Ouch!! I only ever bought proper hardie-backer screws once, very expensive!!
Cheap as chips box of 1000 black plasterboard screws do the job just as well.....I tend to use a big HSS drill bit to create a "countersink" for the head to sit neatly into, but no need to pilot-hole drill the hardie-backer.
Keep trying, its great stuff for stabilising an old floorboard floor of the "usual" upstairs bathroom!!

 

[Russell brown]

The bathroom I'm doing has 22mm t&g chipboard flooring but I thought I'd see what all the fuss was about. I won't give up on it as it could be down to me but I think it seems a lot of effort and a lot of expense. Do you mix your addy up wetter when sticking the boards down as I mixed up as normal.

 

[Stef]

The bathroom I'm doing has 22mm t&g chipboard flooring but I thought I'd see what all the fuss was about. I won't give up on it as it could be down to me but I think it seems a lot of effort and a lot of expense. Do you mix your addy up wetter when sticking the boards down as I mixed up as normal.

Yeah mix your addy up wetter than normal, it's only meant to act as a filler for the voids but once set that Hardie isn't moving, even if you take the screws out.
I always use a flexi addy & I prime the boards as well.

 

[Ian]

What was it you didn't like about Hardibacker in particular?

 

[Russell brown]

The sub floor is flat as anything, I took time to clean, Hoover and prime the t&g. Took time to ensure addy was spread evenly yet the hardi backer isn't flat. It's not massive dips about 2/4mm in the centre of a 2m level but I know the original floor was flat. Maybe if I mixed the addy up wetter it wouldn't of been as bad?.

 

[p4ulo]

I can only guess that's what it could be Russell?
I always screw in the fixings from one edge working towards the other, to ensure adhesive is nicely moved around and evenly distributed underneath....and I also mix it slightly wetter to allow it to "move" more.

 

[Stef]

The sub floor is flat as anything, I took time to clean, Hoover and prime the t&g. Took time to ensure addy was spread evenly yet the hardi backer isn't flat. It's not massive dips about 2/4mm in the centre of a 2m level but I know the original floor was flat. Maybe if I mixed the addy up wetter it wouldn't of been as bad?.

The Hardie should have been flat if the floor was flat.
I lay the Hardie then walk all over the board to squash it right into the adhesive & I have never had a problem.

 

[steve-tiler]

I have to admit I wasn't sure about backer boards when I first used them after always tiling onto ply. But I now always use backerboards and try not to tile to ply unless its been done by customer with correct wood and i am happy its well fixed down.