travertine on walls

[cromboy]

Hi all, have been regular to the forum over time; picking up best practice and good advice . Finally having to ask for advice I cant find.
I have been asked to fix travertine wall tiles. Although I went to college for a year and have done lots of ceramics/porcelain etc - I am a trav virgin!!
I know the weights pm2, rapidset flex white etc, but need advice on; sealing schedule, should I use 10mm trowel, apply adhesive to wall as per normal but also apply a scrape to back of tile prior to fixing, and any tips and tricks
thanks in advance :blush5:

 

[Tilerbhoy]

How flat are the walls?
what size of travatine are they?

 

[charlie1]

Hi cromboy, Imo, travertine is pretty easy compared with ceramics or porcelain, just more time consuming. Lay clean, wash, grout then 2 or 3 coats of sealer. Be wary of your light sources, windows, spots, they will easily cast shadows on the grout lines because of the rectified edges. Never use trim either, ste there any external corners to be tiled?

 

[SJPurdy]

size of trowel notch will depend on size of tiles. I've just done some 30 x 30 cm using 8mm notch and it gave solid fixing when combined with back buttering. I would always back butter any stone so that any "staining through" will be even and so not show on the surface of the tile. If you dont use trim on external corners then you will probably have to hone/polish the seen edges of the tiles to match the faces. Hope your trav is bettre than the stuff i just used which was a large proportion filler!

 

[SJPurdy]

And make sure that if you need to use flexible corner sealing joints to use a type of sealer that is compatible with travertine.

 

[Adrian S]

Hi guy's, can I ask two further questions on travertine on walls.

1). I'm tiling my en-suite walls with 400 x 400 travertine tiles and have brought 5kg mapel ultra colour plus flex grout. Is it ok to use this grout in the shower area corners, or should I be using a flexible corner sealer?

2). What's the proper sequence - do I tile the floor and then the bottom row of wall tiles or fix the bottom row of wall tiles and then tile the floor?

 

[cromboy]

Hi cromboy, Imo, travertine is pretty easy compared with ceramics or porcelain, just more time consuming. Lay clean, wash, grout then 2 or 3 coats of sealer. Be wary of your light sources, windows, spots, they will easily cast shadows on the grout lines because of the rectified edges. Never use trim either, ste there any external corners to be tiled?

Thanks for the info my friend, guess one mans 'easy' is another mans 'not so easy' . Light sources never crossed my mind, and now you mention it, its a typical bathroom with large window, so yep I've got the issue of what to do with the unpolished edges (roll on ceramics and corner trim). Whilst I was a general builder, I helped a tiler out and he mitred the edges (at clients request). This doesn't seem good practice as the edges are thin/brittle and prone to breaking. Do you polish the edges with grinder/buffer?

 

[cromboy]

size of trowel notch will depend on size of tiles. I've just done some 30 x 30 cm using 8mm notch and it gave solid fixing when combined with back buttering. I would always back butter any stone so that any "staining through" will be even and so not show on the surface of the tile. If you dont use trim on external corners then you will probably have to hone/polish the seen edges of the tiles to match the faces. Hope your trav is bettre than the stuff i just used which was a large proportion filler!

Thanks for reply; just to clear up the back buttering issue - are we talking a scrape of adhesive with flat edge of trowel rather than adhesive with notched edge (ie 8mm deep). At college they called buttering a full bed of notched adhesive.
Having just been to see the job, big problem - the builder has had a plasterer 'straighten' the walls. He has between 10mm and 60mm of bonding on the walls, which he then sealed with SBR. You know whats coming!!!! He has 10mm travertine - too much weight, especially with that much plaster hanging on the wall. Does he chop it off or batten over the walls and board it? He's a friend, so I want to try save him the embarrassment and prison time if the tiles drop on someones head. thanks again

 

[Ian]

I would call buttering using the notched side of the trowel, using the flat side I would call skimming. Some call it either or.

 

[cromboy]

I would call buttering using the notched side of the trowel, using the flat side I would call skimming. Some call it either or.

So, although the better job, this would add more weight pm2. Those 10mm tiles are not going on those walls!

 

[SJPurdy]

The English language isn't it wonderful.
To clarify my previous answer, by "buttering" i mean what other are calling "skimming". So comb adhesive on wall with notched trowel and apply to back of tile with flat trowel. Now i'll have to find time to read bits of the BS again to check what they mean by buttering!
I am not aware of bonding being approved as suitable for any type of tiles let alone heavy ones. (i have tiled over it many times in the past (normal ceramics) and used to use it for making good without any problems but I have since learned it is not an apropriate substrate until skimed over with finishing plaster!)
Corner joint should be flexible sealant not grout (all corner joints should to comply with BS).

 

[Time's Ran Out]

What can I add - 'Travertine is easy compared to ceramics and porcelain' - that just about sums up the state of our industry.
And if you think you are ready to become a Trav virgin after 1 year at college (almost as long as I did grouting before fixing any tiles) then heaven help our trade.
There is more to stone work than weight issues!

 

[AliGage]

The only thing i'll add is the only thing someone hasn't said. So it's proberbly justa preference thing for me.

I find Travertine quite fragile at tiles. I would not and don't use rapid set. I have found in the past the use of rapid can cause fractures in what essentially is already a "faulty" product. I tile the room somewhat differently when doing stone as well. rather than do a wall at a time after setting out i run around the room, few rows on each giving less weight on my props or battens whilst the adhesive sets overnight.

Addy is marginally cheaper this way as well. Seeming as white is soooo much more expensive. Every little helps!!

 

[SJPurdy]

The only thing i'll add is the only thing someone hasn't said. So it's proberbly justa preference thing for me.

I find Travertine quite fragile at tiles. I would not and don't use rapid set. I have found in the past the use of rapid can cause fractures in what essentially is already a "faulty" product. I tile the room somewhat differently when doing stone as well. rather than do a wall at a time after setting out i run around the room, few rows on each giving less weight on my props or battens whilst the adhesive sets overnight.

Addy is marginally cheaper this way as well. Seeming as white is soooo much more expensive. Every little helps!!

I agree with the tiling around the room a few rows on each wall at a time is a good practice to reduce pressure on battens and spacers while the adhesive sets.
I'm not sure as to why the rapid set would be making tiles fracture when slow set wouldn't. I'd almost always prefer to be using slow set but with natural stone i think most adhesive manufacturers will be recommending rapid set because (as I understand it) 1. it reduces staining (any salts are quickly locked into the setting adhesive and so can not then travel through the stone and 2. some thin natural stone tiles will bend if one side is wet (like wood) and so by using rapid set the tiles is fixed in position before the tile can warp due to the moisture on the adhesive side.

 

[cromboy]

I agree with the tiling around the room a few rows on each wall at a time is a good practice to reduce pressure on battens and spacers while the adhesive sets.
I'm not sure as to why the rapid set would be making tiles fracture when slow set wouldn't. I'd almost always prefer to be using slow set but with natural stone i think most adhesive manufacturers will be recommending rapid set because (as I understand it) 1. it reduces staining (any salts are quickly locked into the setting adhesive and so can not then travel through the stone and 2. some thin natural stone tiles will bend if one side is wet (like wood) and so by using rapid set the tiles is fixed in position before the tile can warp due to the moisture on the adhesive side.

Thanks for your wisdom, will def take couple of rows around the room and use rapid (as BAL technical advise its use).

 

[cromboy]

Dont know what sort of training you did but after one year of college, I realised it was not a high level of training. Flat ply stud walls and flat timber floors, half hearted teachers and NO mention of stone/trav as prob too expensive to let trainees use it. You try and get an apprenticeship nowadays, where you can get hands on training! A year grouting, you must be very good at grouting then.

 

[ifindoubtgrout]

no offence to anybody on here but worrying about salt in adhesive is taking the job too far,if you only tiled to b.s. youd never work because no job is perfect, good luck with job.

 

[AliGage]

Im going to use a taboo saying here, (never had a problem):S But i persoanlly have never experienced staining in any travertine work i have undertaken. I have used both rapid and slow set adhesive for the jobs. In cases where i use slowset it has been with 8mm low grade "resin" trav. I have had a case where i believe the fast set of adhesive has caused a poor quality pirece to fracture.
I don't get much call for good quality stone in what i'm asked to quote for so most is the cheap end stuff. I do what works for me.

 

[cromboy]

no offence to anybody on here but worrying about salt in adhesive is taking the job too far,if you only tiled to b.s. youd never work because no job is perfect, good luck with job.

Thanks for your advice, common sense and good wishes. The job is going well and client is very happy ( which is the important thing). Good luck to you!

 

[AliGage]

Post some pictures when you're all done. Hope it goes well, good luck

 

[cromboy]

Will do mate, thanks