Travertine tiling job - preparation, which adhesives etc. Help!

[_Adrian]

Hi,

I’m still planning my first proper tiling job (in my own house) and have been trying to get everything straight in my head in advance, but my head is struggling! The current thing is working out which adhesives etc to use. So, I thought I’d put a post on here, and hopefully all you experienced guys and girls can help . How does this sound...

1. Bathroom and en-suite walls – 60x40cm H&F travertine
Substrates are bare plasterboard and aquapanel (in the wet areas).
Been looking into adhesives etc, Mapei sounds like a popular choice, and I was thinking white keraquick but was concerned about the short pot life, so maybe keraflex instead. Haven’t looked into grouts yet so suggestions welcome. LTP MPG Sealer

2. Boxing-in
I’ll be boxing-in the cistern and the UFH manifold, (for which I’ll need to leave access panels - one in the top, and one in the front) as well as creating a shelf for the counter-top basin. I’ll be tiling over these and was wondering which materials you would recommend for the the tiling substrate. I was thinking plasterboard on the front, and as I have lots of 12mm WBP going spare (!!) I was going to use that on the tops as it’s more water resistant (could double it up if necessary for stiffness). Or should I totally avoid using the WBP in favour of something else – cheap backer board?

3. Bathroom and en-suite floors – 40x40cm H&F travertine
There's warm water UFH under the 18mm ply which is supported on 600mm centre joists. It would be great if the finished floor level was similar to the carpet in the adjoining rooms, so was wondering about using Plastic Ply to reduce any flexing in the floor (not that any is noticeable). I've read some older posts about plastic ply which were skeptical, but none more recently - has anyone used it and would recommend it? It seems to act more as a stiffener for the floor, would this act as an effective decoupling layer too? Would Ditra matting do both jobs?
I’ve just read that keraflex shouldn’t be used on UFH with tiles greater than 300x300mm, so it’s back to the drawing board. Maybe I’ll just give Mapei a phonecall on Monday...

4. Ground Floor, 45m2, tumbled travertine in opus pattern.
Warm water UFH in approx 80mm of sand/cement screed. Screed has been down for nearly 3 months, and UFH has been ramped up to temperature, then allowed to cool, then heated again. Now keeping the rooms at 18 deg C.
The ground floor is effectively 2 larger rooms joined in one doorway, in which there’s an obvious crack that has formed in the screed. Do I need to put an expansion joint in here, and break the pattern?
Planning to use Ditra Matting as a decoupling layer.
I’ve read conflicting stuff about the whether I should switch off the UFH completely during the installation and for a period after, or leave it on with room stats set at a low temp. Help!

Back to the adhesives, the tile supplier sells Stone Essentials Trade Fastflex Tile Adhesive but as this brand didn’t appear on the tilers forum survey I’m a bit hesitant. Has anyone used it? It’s a lot cheaper than I could find the Mapei adhesive for...

General feedback or comments on any of the above would be greatly appreciated.

Can’t wait to actually DO the tiling!

Adrian

 

[hillhead]

I'm too tired tonight,lol.
Hard week just over.
Keraflex on walls for sure and keraquick on the floor adrian, pot life not too bad with keraquick.
You seem rightly sorted.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Adrian - good post and surprised not more feedback yet - stay with us it will all come through!
As it is for yourself don't worry about the expense just go for the most costly you can and it will be worth it.
Adhesive - a fast set flexible white cement based. I like this as you only mix what you want in 30 mins and it stops any suction back on large format tiles.
Boxing in and shelf - buy some sheets of 30-60mm Wedi board.
Overboard your substrate then use a Ditra style matting as an uncoupling for the travertine.
Make sure the expansion joint comes through to the surface face of the travertine, use a Ditra uncoupling mat and switch the UFH off.
Use one of the big 4 adhesive manufacturers.
And have fun.

 

[chris.tiling]

As per above -white powdered adhesive (I use the two mentioned above). As for sealer I use LTP mattstone or ironwax satin for a satin look finish on floor
Small concern over the plasterboard walls - think the tiles are too heavy for plasterboard so would aquapanel whole room - others will confirm or say I am wrong (not unheard of!)
Definitely ditra with Trav and UFH - too many scary stories where this hasnt been done
Good post and planning
Good luck with it and enjoy the finished product!!

 

[JLM Tiling]

I agree with the above pretty much. Definitely agree with the weight issue, I'd do everything in wedi board and when you do it make sure you silicone in between the joints of the board and tape over them in the wet areas.

If I could make the call on the floor I'd go for 25mm and make sure the underside, the edges and 100mm in from the edge on the top side of the board was primed. It's overkill but i'm pretty sure I suffer from paranoia. I know everyone else thinks I do. 18mm is sufficient but having it sealed really is important in my opinion.

Check out the Ditra install video on their website if you haven't already, it's simple, straightforward and if you follow it then you can't go wrong. I use Ardex AF200 for sticking the Ditra with a 3mm notch trowel, good gear but it really does skin over quick. And it will stick to your tools and your hands so work quick and work clean! I wear disposable gloves when I do it. Don't fill the holes in the top of the ditra to level it off and then tile on it the next day. Spread the adhesive about with the flat edge of the tile so everything is filled up and then go back over with the notch side and lay your tile at the same time. If you pre fill it and it sets then it will reduce the effectiveness of the ditra and you'll also find it harder to level your tiles when you do come to lay them.

As for the adhesive Mapei is top gear. Don't use it myself, I prefer ardex, but only because that's what I 'grew up on'. Ardex, Mapei and BAL are all top brands and there isn't much difference in performance. Don't buy cheap because you really need the additives in the top stuff for jobs like this. I wouldn't recommend a rapidset for a beginner but I don't know what level you're at, you seem pretty clued up. Just make sure it's white, also very important.

If you're on the job and you have a question about a material and you need an answer on the spot then I'd recommend calling the manufacturer. Most have spot on technical departments that can give you to the letter advice and all that I have spoken to have been really friendly and helpful.

Laying stone is an art in itself really. There's some good threads on here that deal with it specifically that you should check out. I'm sure you probably already have so you'll know the basics but don't forget the little things. Everything has to be spot on with Travertine. If that's what you want then everything has to be spot on. Spend the money, take the time. A few hundred quid extra, maybe a week slower. Don't sweat it. Just do it. Because a week delay is only that week. Then it's over. Your tiling will be there for years. And your missus will probably kiss you on the cheek and tell you it's lovely. But you'll know. And it'll drive you bonkers. Measure twice, cut once! And work clean, if it needs cleaning then clean it. With trav you won't really get a second chance

Mate you seem ambitious and already well clued up. You're gonna be fine. Just remember the 7 p's, Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents a **** Poor Performance!! Well on the way chap. Good luck! We like pictures!

p.s. Seal before you grout, make your life a lot easier!

 

[_Adrian]

Thanks for the responses guys, really appreciate it. When the experienced guys like yourself take the time to respond to questions from newbies like myself, it really does help. Ditra video watched and manufacturers' help lines in the phone

30-60mm wedi - presume I have to go this thick for rigidity? Will look into suppliers but suggestions welcomed. (There are no big tile places in West Cornwall, so likely to be web purchase.)

Plastic ply - has anybody used it? If not, what's the minimum ply overboarding I could get away with? (Don't really want to use wedi on the floor as UFH is under the existing 18mm ply decking.)

I've looked into suppliers for the other stuff - quite an expensive list, but I'm committed to doing it now as I've finally ordered the travertine (actually quite a relief to get that out of the way), and want to do it well. I've had a go at estimating the quantities of adhesive etc required, and would love some feedback in case I'm way out! Also, please could you guys cast an eye over the prices below and tell me if I'd be over-paying on any of this:
Schluter Ditra £6.43/m2
Keraflex white, 9 x 20kg bags for 35m2 @ £12.51 per bag
Keraquick white, 19 x 20kg bags for 50m2 @ £17.10
LTP Mattstone, 3 x 5L for 45m2 @ £47.33
LTP MPG Sealer, 2 x 5L for 40m2 @ £52.07

All prices ex VAT and delivery.

I'm going to go for Mapei grout too, and will pick a colour after the travertine has arrived, probably jasmine or vanilla. Only other thing I can think of right now is primer, so am now going to search for a Primer G supplier...

Thanks again,

Adrian

 

[_Adrian]

OK, so since the last post I've read lots on here about plastic ply - looks like I'll bin the idea.

Instead for the floors I'm now thinking 6mm hardiebacker 250, then Ditra then tiles. But as the hardiebacker needs mechanical fixing, and as I have UFH immediately under the decking, I'm very nervous about puncturing the water pipes. Is there an alternative backerboard that will allow heat transfer and doesn't require mechanical fixing?

If not, I'll have to carefully screw the hardiebacker using some other screws (their screws are too long). The longest screw I dare use is 20mm, and the biggest head stainless steel screw I've found is a no.4 (something like this http://www.*************/p/turbo-ul...-4-x-20mm-pack-of-200/10968?_requestid=805728 ). Think this'll be OK?

Also, any comments on prices/quantities above?

Thanks,

Adrian

 

[_Adrian]

Didn't like the link. Was Screwfix item 10968.