tub or bag? rule of thumb

[mikethetile]

with the array of adhesives available to the tiler and the apperant lack of fixing knowledge being shown by suppliers I thought I would post a simple rule of thumb that I was taught by a 5year time served city and guilds apprenticed tiler with over thirty years experiance under his belt

My college tutor

there are two basic tile groups vitrified and non vitrified
there are two basic adhesive groups dispersion and powder
dispersion comes in a tub and powder comes in a bag
dispersion is reversable and powder is non reversable

dispersion is ready to go and dries by contact with air and powder uses water as a catalyst and cures by chemical reaction

dispersion can be used with non vitrified but cant be used with vitrified due to the way it cures

powder can be used with both as it cures by chemical reaction

non vitrified tiles are the tiles that are glazed on the front with a bisque base, dispersion cures by dispersing the moisture into the substrate and out through the bisque , the bisque acts like a wick drawing the moisture from the adhesive. grouting seals the edge of the tile preventing this process so you need to leave the tiles 24 hours before grouting. failure to do this will result in picture framing where the adhesive has set on the perimiter and not in the centre. your actual adhesion will be down as low as twenty per cent
24 hours is for anything up to 150mm over that size and the drying time is extended
dispersion will take occasional wetting but not constant wetting as it will revert to its original state

so the rule of thumb is with using tubbed adhesive

you may use it with non vitrified tiles up to 150mm on a suitable background that is dry or occasionally wetted providing you allow the adhesive to set before grouting

for every other situation a cement based or powder product is available and should be used

 

[diamondtiling]

Good thread Mike, lets hope people read and digest it.

 

[grumpygrouter]

It is a good thread but my rule of thumb is even simpler - Always use bagged adhesive!!

 

[mikethetile]

It is a good thread but my rule of thumb is even simpler - Always use bagged adhesive!!

Im in full agreement on this
as far as im concerned they can take it off the market as its no longer relevent to the tiling trade
when i was at college the majority of domestic tiling jobs could be done with tub
over recent years the tile chosen by householders tends to not suit fixing by dispersion
so whats the point of even carrying tub when you can use bag in every situation

 

[Andy Allen]

what do you do when the client has purchesed all the materials? ive lost many quotes ,refuseing to use there addy and grout,i find trying to tell them its not the best addy for the job a nightmare, when they read the tub and it says suiatable for bathrooms exct, the tile shops sell them the stuff and is adement its fine for there job, also alot of the tile shops round my area refuse to refund addy ,grout.

 

[Gazzer]

what do you do when the client has purchesed all the materials? ive lost many quotes ,refuseing to use there addy and grout,i find trying to tell them its not the best addy for the job a nightmare, when they read the tub and it says suiatable for bathrooms exct, the tile shops sell them the stuff and is adement its fine for there job, also alot of the tile shops round my area refuse to refund addy ,grout.

Never had that problem, I just say if they want a guarantee from me then I use my adhesives and grouts unless I agree to what they have purchased. They just take the unopened adhesives and grouts back and get refunded.

 

[mikethetile]

what do you do when the client has purchesed all the materials? ive lost many quotes ,refuseing to use there addy and grout,i find trying to tell them its not the best addy for the job a nightmare, when they read the tub and it says suiatable for bathrooms exct, the tile shops sell them the stuff and is adement its fine for there job, also alot of the tile shops round my area refuse to refund addy ,grout.

Hi Andy

you can use dispersal in bathrooms as its classed as an occasional wet area
providing your fixing non vitrous tiles and you allow sufficiant time for the addy to go off before grouting

you can also use bagged if you prefer

if the merchant has sold unsuitable addy for the tiles then they will exchange against a bagged product

 

[diamondtiling]

A shop cannot refuse to take stuff back for a refund if its the wrong material? Direct your customers to this site and find a thread on tubbed adhesive, if they still wont change then let them do the work.

I do as ramic does, if its my adhesive then I give them a guarantee, simple.

 

[Aston]

nicely explained mike
its very important for any newcomer to the trade, to fully understand how something works in order to think for themselves and make the right decisions when they are left to their own devices...

ed

 

[Peter]

Rule of thumb here is:

Basic ceramic 4x4 splashbacks - tubbed adhesive
Anything else - powdered adhesive

I find that my sole influencing factor in buying tubbed stuff is so that I can get a new clean bucket out of it when it's finished.