Advice please for 'wetroom' tiles with inadequate fall for water.

[shopkeeper]

I recently had a downstairs bedroom extension with en-suite built for my elderly parents as they are no longer mobile enough to climb stairs. I wanted to make it as nice and accessible for them as I could as they will likely see out the rest of there days there:

There is a problem with the floor tiles of the wetroom the builder layed in that they did not create a sufficient, if any, fall for the water from the shower to flow back to the drain. Instead water runs past the shower screen and into the remaining area of the bathroom, as in the image:

Alarm bells should have rang when the builders didn't seem certain about how the tiles should be cut in the shower area to create adequate fall, so I researched and drew the cutting pattern for the tiles and explained how they needed to slope down towards the drain:

In places where the tiles do slope the water doesn't pool in the corners but where the tiles don't slope, or even slope in the wrong direction, the water stays for days after running the shower:

The builders said they will try and fix the matter by re-tiling the 4 tiles in the corner with a good slope. So I have come up with a new cutting pattern, but this time all 4 tiles will be slopped, instead of just the 2 in the area of the shower screen (I assumed at the time that the builders would slope the other 2 full size tiles next to the cut ones.) I am hoping that this new arrangement, with the addition of a shower deflector screen, will help fix the problem and keep most of the water contained in the shower area instead of flowing everywhere:

Please advise if this is a good solution or if there is a better way to cut and lay the tiles to create a good flow of water back to the drain.

Having done more research I appreciate that ideally all the floor tiles in the wet-room should be sloping towards the drain, not just those in the vicinity of the shower area. Unfortunately due to the high cost of replacing all floor tiles and urgency to have the bedroom and en-suite ready before the winter months set in, this is not going to be possible.

Alternatively, if this won't remedy the problem, I could forget the whole wet-room idea and have installed a shower tray and enclosure?

Appreciate you taking the time to read all this. Hope someone can help. Thanks!

 

[WetSaw]

Your second plan for the envelope cuts should be sufficient to ensure the water flows to the drain but, depending on your water pressure and shower head, you may still end up with a wet floor. The deflector will help but the design of open showers means that the water is not contained. My concern would be removing the existing tiles without damaging the waterproofing beneath.

 

[Qwerty]

As above ^^

Do you know what tanking was used & type of former?

 

[Dumbo]

As above ^^

Do you know what tanking was used & type of former?

I've done remedial on jobs like this before and builders didn't use a former just screeded the floor to a fall . So I had to build up floor outside wet area to get sufficient fall to the drain .

 

[John Benton]

Your second plan for the envelope cuts should be sufficient to ensure the water flows to the drain but, depending on your water pressure and shower head, you may still end up with a wet floor. The deflector will help but the design of open showers means that the water is not contained. My concern would be removing the existing tiles without damaging the waterproofing beneath.

I suspect the fact that they didn't either a) follow the fall on the former that was fitted or b) didn't create a fall themselves towards the drain then they will be ripping up all that area to create the fall.

Do you know what tanking system (if any) was used?

 

[shopkeeper]

Unfortunately they didn't do any waterproofing or tanking. They just laid the tiles on the concrete they poured on the new floor, and for the walls they simply tiled onto ordinary plaster board.

I did ask them if they had done a wet-room before and they said they had. Clearly given the situation I am now dealing with they most probably haven't. I did look into it in hindsight, but I trusted there word and failed to do my research before hand.

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[shopkeeper]

Do you know what tanking system (if any) was used?

As above ^^

Do you know what tanking was used & type of former?

No tanking was done i'm afraid or former used.

 

[One Day]

They may have done wet rooms before, but many have and badly!
If they correct the falls, and you put a return screen on the main glass, it'll help lots.
I wouldn't panic about the lack of tanking. Whilst it should have been done, so long as the grouting and siliconing is checked and OK (maybe get a professional to check this) then with just domestic use it should last.

 

[John Benton]

So what we are saying is it was tiled regardless of any falls and they thought that just by cutting the tiles towards the drain corners, the water would run away. If that's the case then they shouldn't be building never mind tiling 'wet rooms'

So what is actually underneath the tiles ?

 

[shopkeeper]

As above ^^

Do you know what tanking was used & type of former?

So what we are saying is it was tiled regardless of any falls and they thought that just by cutting the tiles towards the drain corners, the water would run away. If that's the case then they shouldn't be building never mind tiling 'wet rooms'

So what is actually underneath the tiles ?

Its concrete, that was poured over a black plastic sheet layed on the ground from what I recall.

In regards to the tiles being cut around the drain, I was standing over them whilst they layed down the tiles with a spirit level, trying to make sure the tiles sloped towards the drain. As you can imagine this was pretty awkward as they were adamant that they would create an adequate fall. In a few places where the cut tiles do slope the water does drain away effectively, but in others it pools staying there for days until it evaporates. Though this is trivial compared to the problem of water flowing out past the shower area/screen and into the rest of the room, but symptomatic of the problem I think.

 

[Qwerty]

I hate to say it but if I visited a customer with this issue, I would only be recommending taking it all up and starting all over again. Your screed is basically acting as a massive sponge and soaking up all of the water which will lead to other problems in the future.

 

[shopkeeper]

I hate to say it but if I visited a customer with this issue, I would only be recommending taking it all up and starting all over again. Your screed is basically acting as a massive sponge and soaking up all of the water which will lead to other problems in the future.

Thanks for your reply. Do you not think the grout and silicone would be effective in itself in preventing the water from getting to the screed?

 

[Rookery]

I hate to say it but if I visited a customer with this issue, I would only be recommending taking it all up and starting all over again. Your screed is basically acting as a massive sponge and soaking up all of the water which will lead to other problems in the future.

I've been in this position before and recommended the same thing. Once, when the falls were non-existent, the shower water was running away from the drain, through the door and into the customers bedroom. The original fitters solution was to fix a strip of timber across the doorway effectively building a dam. Yes honestly, I kid you not.

 

[Qwerty]

Thanks for your reply. Do you not think the grout and silicone would be effective in itself in preventing the water from getting to the screed?

Not looking at the workmanship, no.

 

[John Benton]

You could remove the screen and remove tiles in wet area. Build, say a 75x75mm step underneath where the screen is from wall to wall so that will contain the water and tile that. New falls TOWARDS the drain can be created inside that rectangle. It can then be tanked on the floor and tiled. Lastly fix the screen back in position on top of the step. The only downside would be the step over as a potential trip hazard, but I think that has to be the compromise.

 

[Flintstone]

I have seen a handful of wet rooms where I’ve been asked to tile them with a home made fall made up of the screed and not one have been any good. All of them I had them chop up and fit a propper wetroom former!

 

[Unused Account 1]

Use mosaics on the former then tiles to come of it

 

[shopkeeper]

I have seen a handful of wet rooms where I’ve been asked to tile them with a home made fall made up of the screed and not one have been any good. All of them I had them chop up and fit a propper wetroom former!

I wasn't aware of what a wetroom former was at the time. In hindsight, I wish I had done my own research into what was involved.

Could people please advice how much slope would be required from the back wall to the drain, a distance of about 156 cm, as I have drawn in the diagram below, for a good drain of water?

The builders have said they will come tomorrow to try and fix the problem, but i'm not holding my breath..

 

[shopkeeper]

I wasn't aware of what a wetroom former was at the time. In hindsight, I wish I had done my own research into what was involved.

Actually, having just looked into it, it seems like I did order a former but returned it because the builders had already layed the screed and said it would be ALOT of work to cut into the concrete to use it.

 

[Wes]

Its more like they could not be bothered cutting a former in

 

[Dumbo]

You can mess about with tile designs all you like but unless the height of the drain is decreased or the height of the floor relative to the drain is increased it is going to be the same result

 

[shopkeeper]

You can mess about with tile designs all you like but unless the height of the drain is decreased or the height of the floor relative to the drain is increased it is going to be the same result

The builders have said they will 'scrape' into the concrete to create the slope required for good water drainage..

 

[John Benton]

They will have to lower the drain if they are going to do that!!

 

[shopkeeper]

Its more like they could not be bothered cutting a former in

I agree. I am starting to realise that these builders like to minimise there work as much as possible when they have quoted a fixed rate for the job.

 

[Dumbo]

The builders have said they will 'scrape' into the concrete to create the slope required for good water drainage..

They are going to have to do more than scrape . As regards your earlier post go to a bathroom showroom with a spirit level and a tape measure and measure the drop .

 

[John Benton]

They will always cut corners to get in and out as quickly as possible

 

[shopkeeper]

They will have to lower the drain if they are going to do that!!

Thanks, I will keep that in mind and insist they do that when they go about the task. Appreciate your input!

 

[John Benton]

It would be easier to build it up and create a fall to the drain rather than try to create a fall in existing concrete

 

[shopkeeper]

It would be easier to build it up and create a fall to the drain rather than try to create a fall in existing concrete

I see what you mean. What they say and what they'll do seem to be different things. I have minimal tiling and building experience and have my doubts about the actual practicality of what they have suggested. Having eye-balled the slope on a similar sized wetroom former

it looks like they'll have to do remove a fair amount of concrete.

Tuff Form 1500×820 | AKW - https://www.akw-ltd.co.uk/products/wet-room-formers/tuff-form-1500x820/

 

[Flintstone]

If I was you I would get some one else who knows what they are doing to put right the job using the correct products and methods and take these builders to court or get your money back, they obviously aren’t capable of doing it correctly, you will be forever chasing your tale when it’s leaking a few months!