Grout problem in shower area

[SJPurdy]

If the humidity in the room was very dry after applying the grout then this could cause the surface setting of the grout to be weak. I have seen this with floor grout when a dehumidifier has been left running after grouting - but I doubt this is the cause here as the result is much more severe. At one time in the distant past there was a recommendation (by a manufacturer) to spray over the grout (after grouting) to keep it hydrated when grouting highly vitrified tiles.

The accurate ratio mixing of grout baffles me a bit because if grouting porcelain then the ratio will remain the same in the applied grout. However if grouting an absorbant bodied tile then water will be sucked out of the applied grout changing the waterowder ratio!

 

[J Sid]

Good idea! Yesterday BAL told me to mix a small amount on to a scrap tile which I did. This morning when Topps visited, the grout softened when made wet just like the grout lines.
So I pinched the wife's scales, put on a small mixing bowl and set the scales to 0. I added 4 grams cold water, then grout to take it up to 24 grams so 4 grams water 20 grams grout 5:1 ratio. I have put the mix thinly next to the first sample. It will be interesting to see what it is like tomorrow.
Does anybody mix grout this accurately?

if you still have some of this grout do a test and mix as instructed and see what happens.
if you get the same result then you are prepared when you get the answer from them you are expecting

 

[Jon B]

Thanks SJPurdy but the humidity was nothing unnatural and there wasn't any heating in the room for a few days either. Coincidentally the BAL adviser made the same comment about spraying the grout if the tiles are absorbent. But I have done a lot of travertine which I assume is absorbent without this problem.
I get the point about the ratio, I am equally baffled but it is their get out clause if they want it.
The Topps manager commented that my porcelain tiles were "biscuit" on the back, which I think means they are more absorbent clay, so yes they would change the ratio anyway. He didn't think I would need to re-grout outside the wet area but I will need the same grout even if it is a fresh bag.

 

[Andy Allen]

Bal.....25 year guarantee!

This means they will spend 25 years guaranteeing they will find a way of it not being there fault !!!

 

[Flintstone]

I'm glad I vowed not to use bal about 7 years ago.

 

[Italy]

what to say?
bal in my dialect, means?
the usual word in Italian .....

 

[Ian]

what to say?
bal in my dialect, means?
the usual word in Italian .....

BAL is 'building adhesives limited' a British adhesive company.

 

[Italy]

BAL is 'building adhesives limited' a British adhesive company.

bal, in my dialect, means balls

 

[Dumbo]

bal, in my dialect, means balls

Thats about right

 

[Tile Shop]

This is a BAL get out that I used to hear quite often....... "We have analysed the sample and the mix was contaminated". They never said what with!

Even after people used new buckets, mixers, grout floats. They always found something in it that shouldn't be in there and it was every time we raised an issue to them. There was quite alot when the Superflex Wide Joint grout first came out.

Luckily though, not been sent any BAL problems for a very long time.

 

[Dan]

Have we heard back on this one?

 

[Jon B]

Update is this. Topps manager took photos and samples. I chased yesterday for the BAL local tech and was told he would take his own samples and photos making the Topps visit a waste of time. The BAL visit is now monday.
I have mixed 2 samples from the grout bag as described previously. The first was mixed as per my usual method and placed on a scrap tile to dry. The second was mixed as per the bag instructions at 5:1 ratio by weight. It looked exactly like the first mix and was spread on to the same tile. A couple of days later and tested by a wet finger, both samples are acting the same as the grouted tiles, softening and smearing when rubbed wet.
Monday will be a week gone since I raised the problem. We needed this shower operational so I could start on the other bathroom which is now being held up. Pain.

 

[Jon B]

Waiting for BAL lab report, maybe later this week

 

[Mattybaby19]

Will be interesting to find out what they say, i just brought the same grout myself in white... i used the gunmetal grey one last week on my floor which was tiny little hexigon mosaics so a LOT of grout was used and would be impossible to remove (see photo - colour dark as its still wet, got much lighter once dry).

Might have to test it at area that goes under the bath, jon did u just rub a wet finger to see if it flakes off.

I must admit, i did weight the water and powder using good old kitchen scales, but im a diyer who hadnt grouted a floor or mosaics before so was happy to follow instruction .

 

[Jon B]

You wouldn't have too much problem raking out the grout if it were like mine because it is soft. Yes a wet finger rubs the grout off. We were advised to use a grout sealer in the shower area as a temporary measure so we could use the shower whilst waiting, but the grout is still washing out on the lower lines where most water hits.
I will definitely have to re-grout the shower area which will mean removing the screen all sealed in place. I don't want to seal on the inside of the channel. The thing that concerns me the most is the floor as it will mean removing the vanity unit and toilet.
I would like to get on with it with fresh grout but I feel I need to wait for the report and their recommendation. Mattybaby19 I doubt whether you will have the same problem, I think I have just been unlucky.

 

[Mattybaby19]

Yeah I rubbed mine with my finger and water this morning and is rock solid. Im really sorry to hear about your situation fella. Fingers crossed Bal does the right thing.

 

[Dumbo]

If it is a mixing problem grout or adhesive shouldn't be made to work within such fine tolerances . Some people prefer their grout and adhesive wetter some prefer it drier . It should be more user friendly .

 

[Mattybaby19]

JonB, any update buddy?

 

[Jon B]

I chased the BAL technical rep monday morning, 2 weeks since the visit to take samples. He said he was going to the office that day and would see where they were with the testing and report and phone me back. He didn't phone me. Tuesday morning I phoned him and he said he had been instructed by his office not to discuss the case with me, saying I should hopefully have an answer by the end of the day. So far nothing. Not sure how to take this. Will have to wait for the report. I will phone Topps at some point as the complaint is officially through them.

 

[Mattybaby19]

Good luck buddy, keep us posted!!

 

[Dumbo]

It's nice to see they are dealing with a problem so quickly and t that they are communicating fully with you and answering your queries promptly .

 

[Italy]

I chased the BAL technical rep monday morning, 2 weeks since the visit to take samples. He said he was going to the office that day and would see where they were with the testing and report and phone me back. He didn't phone me. Tuesday morning I phoned him and he said he had been instructed by his office not to discuss the case with me, saying I should hopefully have an answer by the end of the day. So far nothing. Not sure how to take this. Will have to wait for the report. I will phone Topps at some point as the complaint is officially through them.

normal for the technical, can not argue with you.
Your reference point remains topps.
just annoying all this waiting, when you already know the answer to give you.

 

[Jon B]

Well surprise surprise. BAL have come back with an offer of £400 + grout towards re-grouting the bathroom as a courtesy without admission of liability. However, they have not told me the result of the tests on the samples they took. What do you Tilers make of that?!

 

[hmtiling]

Well surprise surprise. BAL have come back with an offer of £400 + grout towards re-grouting the bathroom as a courtesy without admission of liability. However, they have not told me the result of the tests on the samples they took. What do you Tilers make of that?!

They have most definitely had a ropey batch! Any money screams liability to me, but i'm a cynical swine.

 

[J Sid]

your never get an admission of guilt, that's about a good a result as you could get.

 

[hmtiling]

your never get an admission of guilt, that's about a good a result as you could get.

It's very naughty of them, that certainly won't be the only job affected

 

[Dumbo]

I'm amazed

 

[One Day]

I can't see you (or any other small company) getting admissions of liability from them. Although the goodwill gesture may indicate a batch problem!
Only a major court case would win admission and then before that you would need to have your own very expensive independent testing done.
They won't share lab reports with you, that's for sure.
Take the money or even press a bit for more if the job will take more than a couple of days.
I'd want 200 a day thank you very much!

 

[One Day]

BAL is a great company and they helped me out with a problem may years ago, to my satisfaction.
BAL and TileMaster are the only two companies I have had such assistance from.

 

[Jon B]

Thanks for all your support. It will take more than 2 days if I have to re-grout the whole room. It has been suggested that I just do the wet area but the floor will also need doing and then I will always know the rest is not right. So I will probably do the whole lot in stages. I will press Topps for more.