Poor Tiling or just being picky

[HMer123]

Hi,
We are currently in the process of having our kitchen tiled and have some concerns about the standard of the tiling so far. The tiler is due back this morning but as of a few minutes we have asked him to stop any works until we can reach a solution regarding the concerns that we have raised to him.

We obtained a couple of quotes and both we near on identical and picked this tradesman as 1) we wanted other works in the house completed and 2) he has great reviews in our area (althoigh im beginning to feel people don’t write bad reviews these days). We were required to provide all materials and the quote was for labour only. He was at the property for 4 hours yesterday and is was due to return this morning to complete above the oven hood to the ceiling and the utility area.

Our areas of concern are:
1) Dot and Dab looks like it has been used to apply the tiles/adhesive. I believe this to be the incorrect way to apply the tiles and this method is also not the method detailed within the installation instructions on the adhesive.

2) tiles not flush to the wall/ adjoining tiles. Uneven surface which I feel could be down to the dot and dab installation.

3) Tiles cut to short around electrical sockets.

4) Installation of edging trim to a poor standard.

5) Poor finish to tiling cuts around under counter lighting.

6) 2x tiles with chipped corners.

7) One tile has been installed with cut edge within a tile run. This tile also does not have space for 3mm spacer.

8) tiling by oven hood has not started centrally with the oven hood/hob causing cuts to be off centre to the left.

Are our expectations to high? We have asked for a complete take-off and redo due to the amount of areas we are concerned about.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Qwerty]

It all needs to be redone I'm afraid. Poor attention to detail and sloppy workmanship. Unacceptable

 

[Cranbrook]

You mention you chose him because you wanted other works done? Is he a general builder who does a number of trades or is he an actual tiler? I'm not suggesting there aren't builders around who are excellent tilers, but one thing I've noticed is that the majority of builders think that they can tile as it's 'easy' and then they produce work like this where the attention to detail is missed. And furthermore, it's usually these type of builders who undercut us tilers, and then more often than not, win the job. But as the old saying goes, you get what you pay for (most of the time)

 

[HMer123]

He’s a handyman, so we were looking to get him to finish off the kitchen (glossing, tiling, sealant etc) We looked at previous pictures of his worked and all looked good. As the tiles were large and what we thought to be uncomplicated we weren’t expected any problems. I’m not a tiler but even I know some basics of what to do from an appearance point of view. He’s was £60 cheaper a than the tilers quote but we were providing materials whereas the tiler was providing adhesive etc so we thought the quote was a fair comparison

 

[Waluigi]

This sort of thing is quite typical these days. It’s not the worst I’ve seen but still shows a complete lack of conscience and the opposite of what a good Tiler strives for - perfection.

Either a general trade or very poor Tiler. It’s irrelenant really who did it, it’s not acceptable either way.

In answer to your original question; No you are not being picky.

 

[GoneGuy]

Lack of attention to detail and poor installation

 

[Wayne Brown]

Very poor in my opion make a list of the faults and raise this with the installer one chance to rectify the faults at his cost then it's on your way if your not happy . Kop

 

[Cranbrook]

Handyman - say no more. It takes a long time to learn our trade correctly, and a lot of money to buy the best tools available. Get a professional next time.

 

[acaciaguy]

In the top picture under the hood. Has that top row of tiles been removed. Hence the evidence of d and d? If so it’s been tiled on paint too? Has else where been tiled onto paint?

 

[HMer123]

[There was a chrome back splash there from when we moved in that had Dot and Dab on the back so that is what can be seen in the picture. Previously was an upstand around the worktop and painted walls with Valspar paint

 

[acaciaguy]

So all of the walls that were tiled had paint on

 

[HMer123]

yes, what that cause further problems?

 

[acaciaguy]

Possibly. It depends how well adhered the paint is to wall. It is in effect the only thing holding the adhesive and tiles. If d and d was used I’d be a bit more concerned. Personally I never like to tile on to paint. Some do but only if they have tested soundness of the paint and provided some key such as sanding or wire brush to remove a proportion of the paint.

 

[demi34]

Very poor work, do not pay him till you 100 % happy with his work.

 

[One Day]

Brutal truth is that you got a handyman, not a professional tiler, so you have work which is befitting of a handyman.
Some people are actually happy with that standard surprisingly.
It's certainly not professional standard though.

 

[Old Mod]

As Mark (impish) has stated above, unfortunately, to an extent, you must accept part responsibility I’m afraid.
Believing that one person is capable of carrying out all of the work you have to a high standard is a little naive I’m afraid.
Photos can be very misleading if taken from the correct perspective.
The only way to truly vet tradesman is to visit them on their current site or to see previously completed projects.
It’s something I always offer perspective clients if they need reassurance, and quite often I find that happy customers often offer the chance to bring future clients round to view their completed works.
Yes it’s a pain, but for peace of mind and to avoid your current situation, suddenly it doesn’t seem such a drama.
Yes as everyone else has stated, it does lack finesse, but if you wanted, some of the issues could be overcome.
The biggest issue would be the layout in the hob area, have you asked for an explanation as to why it is that way?
We can’t see the whole wall, there’s a slim chance there’s a reason for it, not likely, but a chance.
If you’re unable to get past that, then there’s no alternative but to remove it.
Some of the less than perfect cuts can and would be covered when a silicone joint is added.
If the tile line that meets the units has a silicone bead instead of a grout joint, it would cover all the imperfections. (It doesn’t have to be a heavy bead)
Trying loosening the screws to the sockets and see if they can be repositioned to hide the imperfections, especially the one where tile is missing from the top of the socket, that would be an issue for anyone who tiled it.
Again when silicone is applied around the window board, that square cut would be hidden.
Yes Tiling to paint isn’t ‘best practise’ but it’s a splashback, as long as it was in a good state of repair and not flaking off, there’s every chance it’ll be ok.
After the weekend attempt to prise a tile off, if it comes away with no effort, then it’s probably a potential issue and must be removed.
If it appears to be fixed well, then it’ll probably be just fine.
Obviously badly lipping tiles need addressing.
Yes it seems like a lot of compromises, but if you hadn’t of seen the current level of finish and it had been completed before you had, all those issues may have been still there but you wouldn’t have been aware, and you’d have been non the wiser.
I’m not suggesting for one moment you settle for sub standard work, but I’d suggest you approach the issue objectively, rather than emotionally.
Consider the alternative possible outcomes of having a row with your ‘tradesman’, ultimately he could pick up and go, leaving you with even more issues.
You would have to get another person in, let alone suppling more material and ripping off what’s already there.
Most tradesman won’t touch others unfinished projects either.
Each and everyone of us could pull your work to pieces, but that can be said of nearly every job.
Criticising is easy, the clever bit is making appropriate changes and making the best of an unfortunate situation, and achieving a finish that is acceptable to all, it can be sorted more often than not.

Perhaps this is a course of action that should be explored.
We can all throw our toys out, and you do have grounds, but what would it actually achieve?

I’m not condoning poor workmanship, not at all, just suggesting a solution.
And if he has any integrity he’ll do what he can to appease you.

 

[Cranbrook]

Marc if you ever run for prime minister, you have my vote already

 

[HMer123]

Just an update.... we contacted the tradesman (handyman) this morning and asked him to stop work on the tiling as we had some concerns that we wanted addressed. We did at this stage mention our Consumer Rights around poor workmanship (I have unfortunately been burned once before many years ago and have since learned to put everything in writing even at an early stage). I then listed our points and pictures as they were written above and asked for a complete-do given the number or areas that we had issues with, believe that this would be the easiest option. The tradesman replied that he would be round to collect his tools and discuss it and we would hear from him in writing within 28 days via post. He collected his tools and we spoke with him in the hallway. We asked if he wanted to see the areas we had concerns with and he said it wasn’t necessary as we had provided pictures. We asked if he was willing to complete a re-do, which he said no too as he felt that we couldn’t judge the overall finish until everything was grouted and sealed. We then asked that as he was taking his tools was he intending to grout and seal and he said no he couldn’t work on this job any further. We had hurt is feelings by being so direct about our concerns which he felt was unnecessary. We explained our reasons why and that we had done no wrong in stating everything that way. He said he had never had any complaints regarding his work but the generally feeling we got was he was more offended than anything. The fact he didn’t even walk into the kitchen to look was enough for me to know how much he was concerned by our feelings. He said he would write to me within 28days, not sure why though

 

[Waluigi]

Not a nice situation but at least he now knows and him not wanting to even look at the work shows how embarrassed he must be.

Hopefully everything will/has been done so that there are no legal implications to come back and bite you but in the meantime I’d suggest perhaps trying to find a Tiler via this forum if anyone is local?

Good luck!

 

[Andy Rhodes]

unfortunately, that's the last you've probably seen & hear d of him. where your cooker hood was should definitely be centered & your cooker hood took down & tiled behind, there are no excuses for cutting tiles short round the sockets also if you have pictures of all the work it may be an idea to take off the tiles & try and salvage some of them.

 

[HMer123]

We did I fact take 2 tiles down this afternoon and socked them in water to see if they would clean up, which they have. We’ve sat and processed things this afternoon as the situation isn’t ideal for either party but I think that by him saying he wouldn’t re-do or complete the job to enable us to see what he was planning to deliver as the overall result then there’s not much more we can do. I’m assuming I can take what he has said verbally about not doing anymore work as legalling binding without having to wait for him to write to us? To me that’s our contract broken and I’d rather just get the job finished.

 

[Dumbo]

Just an update.... we contacted the tradesman (handyman) this morning and asked him to stop work on the tiling as we had some concerns that we wanted addressed. We did at this stage mention our Consumer Rights around poor workmanship (I have unfortunately been burned once before many years ago and have since learned to put everything in writing even at an early stage). I then listed our points and pictures as they were written above and asked for a complete-do given the number or areas that we had issues with, believe that this would be the easiest option. The tradesman replied that he would be round to collect his tools and discuss it and we would hear from him in writing within 28 days via post. He collected his tools and we spoke with him in the hallway. We asked if he wanted to see the areas we had concerns with and he said it wasn’t necessary as we had provided pictures. We asked if he was willing to complete a re-do, which he said no too as he felt that we couldn’t judge the overall finish until everything was grouted and sealed. We then asked that as he was taking his tools was he intending to grout and seal and he said no he couldn’t work on this job any further. We had hurt is feelings by being so direct about our concerns which he felt was unnecessary. We explained our reasons why and that we had done no wrong in stating everything that way. He said he had never had any complaints regarding his work but the generally feeling we got was he was more offended than anything. The fact he didn’t even walk into the kitchen to look was enough for me to know how much he was concerned by our feelings. He said he would write to me within 28days, not sure why though

I'm not saying this guys work is ok but you were a bit hammer and walnut . To start mentioning consumer rights and bad workmanship straight away would of set alarm bells ringing and you may of got a better resolution with a softer approach. If you're clever you negotiate people into the position you want them and they don't even realise that is what you have been doing . I'm not saying you shouldn't put things in writing but only if you have a negative response in the first instance .

 

[Cranbrook]

A 'handyman' is exactly that, they're handy, they're rarely professionals at a certain trade, so I'm guessing by going down the route of consumer rights etc, you've scared the living proverbial out of him.

My advice, like @Waluigi has said, is find a tiler on here

 

[One Day]

It'll get very messy now if you try and legally 'oblige' him to fulfill contract.
I would suggest you chalk it off to another experience and salvage what tiles you can before getting a tiler in to do the tiling.

Please don't get a tiler to do your decorating. Or a plumber to do your electrics, or a gardener to service your car...
(You get the picture now )

 

[Cranbrook]

It'll get very messy now if you try and legally 'oblige' him to fulfill contract.
I would suggest you chalk it off to another experience and salvage what tiles you can before getting a tiler in to do the tiling.

Please don't get a tiler to do your decorating. Or a plumber to do your electrics, or a gardener to service your car...
(You get the picture now )

I'm actually an excellent decorator I'll have you know

 

[Waluigi]

If you can urinate you can decorate. If you can p1ss you can paint.

If you can smile then you.......have nice teeth.

 

[Andy Rhodes]

so if you can cook pasta does it make you Italian

 

[One Day]

I'm actually an excellent decorator I'll have you know

Me too!
ok - it was a poor analogy

 

[Andyman]

Not sure why for £60 you would not choose a tiler who is supplying adhesives etc.
As mentioned consumer rights was a bit strong at the early stage.
Work was poor and the guy I guess knew.
Hopefully you will get the job done

 

[WetSaw]

I'm a qualified light vehicle mechanic...