Impey Tilesafe Membrane

[Impey UK]

Hello all, as you can see this is our first post on this site. After scouting through various posts one thing seems apparent and that is confusion surrounding how, where and to what height the Impey Tilesafe tanking membrane should be installed.

To set the story straight - at Impey we "recommend" tanking the entire floor of the wetroom, although as a minimum requirement you must tank into and at least 1m beyond the wet area of the shower zone.

Although in our opinion Tilesafe is the ultimate wetroom tanking membrane for wetroom floor applications, it is not suitable for tanking the walls in areas where the vertical tile loading is likely to exceed 20kg/m2 - which rules out most natural stone/travertine/marble etc.

The Tilesafe tanking kits we provide are supplied with a roll of 150mm wide jointing tape - this should be folded along it's length to create a 75mm overlap onto the floor and 75mm upstand at the wall. This is sufficient for the Tilesafe application. For the tanking of wetroom walls we recommend you use an alternative liquid or fleece tanking system or a waterproof backer board.

The Impey Tilesafe membrane remains stable up to 32 degrees C. And for this reason we only recommend the use of the 100 watt Devimat under tile heating system when using Tilesafe. There is no need to apply a self levelling compound to 'protect' the membrane from going soft (as it's a rubberised bitumen based sheet).

The membrane is applied directly to the floor/wetroom floor former and then the UFH is applied directly to the top of the membrane. Then you can tile straight over the top as there is no curing time.

I hope that helps to clear things up a bit

 

[NickH]

Hi, ive used your system several times and reckon its superb, but just to clear up one point, if using "normal" ceramics on the walls, ie less than 20kg/m2 , presumably you would still recommend the impey membrane on the walls.

 

[Impey UK]

That would be a matter of personal preference really. We only recommend installing the Tilesafe membrane to a height of 75mm at the wall/floor junction.

The 20kg/m2 weight limit is a total inclusive weight limit - so tiles, adhesive, grout and any other 'self ahdesive' loading.

 

[Varley]

Tanks for your input on here Impey, glad you joined the forums.

Remember to say hi in the Newbie forum just to let everyone know you are here...

http://www.tilersforums.com/new-members-say-hi-here/

 

[wetdec]

Hello all, as you can see this is our first post on this site. After scouting through various posts one thing seems apparent and that is confusion surrounding how, where and to what height the Impey Tilesafe tanking membrane should be installed.

But you still didn’t tell us to what height the tile safe should be installed.............

To set the story straight - at Impey we "recommend" tanking the entire floor of the wet room, although as a minimum requirement you must tank into and at least 1m beyond the wet area of the shower zone.

So given bathroom floors average shall we say 4m2 your 5m2 kit is no where near big enough to tank a wet room walls as well (provided below 20kg/m2) following your recommendation and so a 10m2 kit would be needed........... yes ?

Although in our opinion Tilesafe is the ultimate wetroom tanking membrane for wet room floor applications, it is not suitable for tanking the walls in areas where the vertical tile loading is likely to exceed 20kg/m2 - which rules out most natural stone/travertine/marble etc.

So another tanking system would be needed if using 20+kg/m2 load

On a wood floor or new screeds for example how would tile safe prevent cracking of tiled areas due to lateral expansion and contraction of the sub floor as would Durabase CI, Ditra ?

The Tilesafe tanking kits we provide are supplied with a roll of 150mm wide jointing tape - this should be folded along it's length to create a 75mm overlap onto the floor and 75mm up stand at the wall. This is sufficient for the Tile safe application. For the tanking of wet room walls we recommend you use an alternative liquid or fleece tanking system or a waterproof backer board.

If tilesafe is recommended for floors and you don’t supply pre-made flexible internal/external corners and tapes surely a purchaser would be better off buying a complete system such as Durabase WP tanking where everything can work hand in hand (with one source of customer backup) rather than having two differing methods of tanking in one room ...?

The Impey Tilesafe membrane remains stable up to 32 degrees C. And for this reason we only recommend the use of the 100 watt Devi mat under tile heating system when using Tilesafe. There is no need to apply a self levelling compound to 'protect' the membrane from going soft (as it's a rubberised bitumen based sheet).

I understand a self leveling compound is used primarily to protect the cable and create a good working surface not to protect a membrane.

The membrane is applied directly to the floor/wet room floor former and then the UFH is applied directly to the top of the membrane. Then you can tile straight over the top as there is no curing time.

So you advocate tiling over your aqua dec base with UFH despite the fact that building of layers over a former could alter fall patterns and inhibit water drainage. Should this happen and the base need lifting you will lose the UFH for the whole room wont you ?


Welcome

tiler

..

 

[NickH]

So you advocate tiling over your aqua dec base with UFH despite the fact that building of layers over a former could alter fall patterns and inhibit water drainage. Should this happen and the base need lifting you will lose the UFH for the whole room wont you ?[/FONT]


..

If you add say 5mm over the entire floor then you shouldn't affect the falls and if you cant then tile the floor and maintain the falls then frankly you shouldn't be tiling.

 

[wetdec]

If you add say 5mm over the entire floor then you shouldn't affect the falls and if you cant then tile the floor and maintain the falls then frankly you shouldn't be tiling.

Well that is another arguement but its happening and customers are having run back of water due to layering.

You have a 2% fall .......over this you are putting tilesafe then Devi mat which isnt the easiest to handle on the mat then leveling compound not easy to maintain the 2% if its not something you do every day.............



..

 

[Impey UK]

Hello wetdec...

I DID tell you what height we recommend - if you read the post you'll see that it states a 75mm upstand is sufficient.

Where does it say that we recommend tanking the walls with Tilesafe? Please read the post. If you had 4m2 to cover then the 5m2 kit would be sufficient - obviously.

We make no claims that Tilesafe will prevent cracking due to lateral expansion or contraction - but then assuming the subfloor/boards have been fixed and screwed in accordance with recommended building standards then there shouldn't be a problem. We are talking about waterproofing - not installing a seperation layer which is the primary use for Ditra matting. But I would imagine that if tilers need to buy a product that provides a separation layer that you would be able to sell them something or help them out

Internal and external corners...well, as I said (please read the post) we provide a roll of jointing tape with our kits that is 150mm wide. This forms the wall/floor interface. To form the internal and external corners it is a case of cutting off a 300mm length of the tape and folding and forming the corner sections....we show how to do this on the Impey-showers website. Plenty of installers will choose to use various products for various applications - that is something well documented on many of the other trade forums.

You can use a self levelling compound to protect the cable on the flat areas of the bathroom - but using it in the graded area of the wetfloor, well that's bound to cause a problem - for obvious reasons.

Yes you can use the Devimat over the Aqua-Dec, LinearFlo-Dec (with linear drain) and Aqua-Grade (wetfloor former for new concrete screeds). Of course building up of layers COULD alter fall patterns - but then that's the same as with any wetfloor former - no?
Providing that the tanking, Devimat and grouting is set parallel to the gradient and thicknesses are maintained then it shouldn't make any difference how many layers you apply. Like Nick said - 5mm is 5mm.

Thanks for the warm welcome - glad we can help......oh and sorry for treading on your toes

 

[wetdec]

Hi

You in no way tread on my toes I'm sorry if you felt that just had a number of questions in my mind after reading your post.

Nice you had cooled down by paragraph 3 but your keyword stuffing is a pain in the a$$..........

Its cool to have someone around from Impey as sometimes there are questions that are best answered by yourselves.

Chill... & welcome again

tiler

,,

 

[Olz]

Welcome to the forum Impey

 

[NickH]

Well that is another arguement but its happening and customers are having run back of water due to layering.

You have a 2% fall .......over this you are putting tilesafe then Devi mat which isnt the easiest to handle on the mat then leveling compound not easy to maintain the 2% if its not something you do every day.............



..

Virtually every product can be b***ered up and cause problems if its not installed correctly but that can't be a reason for criticising the product itself.

 

[wetdec]

I'm not sure I follow you where did I critisize which product ?

,,

 

[NickH]

ok perhaps criticise is the wrong word, blame would be better, but you do seem to be suggesting that a system might not be suitable because some people are incapable of installing it correcctly.

 

[andy-p]

just finished a wet room with tilesafe on floor and ufh , i just skimmed over with spf on the aquadec area and spent a bit of time leveling and ensuring the falls were correct , as mosaics were going down you have to be careful to avoid ponding.. to be honest though prefer to use imperband..

 

[DB-Tiling]

took me about a week to peel myself off the membrane :lol:

 

[wetdec]

ok perhaps criticise is the wrong word, blame would be better, but you do seem to be suggesting that a system might not be suitable because some people are incapable of installing it correcctly.

Make it easy on me please quote the section where I critise, blame or suggest that a system might not be suitable because some people are incapable of installing it correcctly for me so we can all see it

tiler

..

 

[NickH]

Well that is another arguement but its happening and customers are having run back of water due to layering.

You have a 2% fall .......over this you are putting tilesafe then Devi mat which isnt the easiest to handle on the mat then leveling compound not easy to maintain the 2% if its not something you do every day.............

So you advocate tiling over your aqua dec base with UFH despite the fact that building of layers over a former could alter fall patterns and inhibit water drainage. Should this happen and the base need lifting you will lose the UFH for the whole room wont you ?


..

Well maybe i'm taking this the wrong way but that doesn't sound much like a recommendation to me. I actually think your whole original post was a bit "unfriendly" and I'm sure Impey UK felt the same too. BTW I have no connection with Impey, just expressing a personal opinion here.

 

[wetdec]

Well that is another arguement but its happening and customers are having run back of water due to layering.

You have a 2% fall .......over this you are putting tilesafe then Devi mat which isnt the easiest to handle on the mat then leveling compound not easy to maintain the 2% if its not something you do every day.............

Well isn’t that a true statement, - there is no injury to product we are talking on theme

So you advocate tiling over your aqua dec base with UFH despite the fact that building of layers over a former could alter fall patterns and inhibit water drainage. Should this happen and the base need lifting you will lose the UFH for the whole room wont you ?

It is a question – then fact again I’m not critisizing and the man answered it as I would,




I wasn’t unfriendly but I did pick up on his first statement which if you read adds a certain doubt as to why Mr Impey just happened to call by.

If you like it was a little like someone calling on you in work saying he had come to explain about gwgwmat as you asked about it……………….then as he was leaving stuck a sticker for gwgwmat on your van

You get me

 

[Impey UK]

This is all getting a bit out of hand by the look of it - wetdec you clearly are either a very suspcious individual or territorial of your 'advertising space'. As I mentioned in the opening of this thread - the whole point was to explain and hopefully make clear to the installers that use this site as a point of reference and advice what we recommend when fitting the Tilesafe membrane. People are free to make their own decisions - and what works for one installer may not necessarily be the preferance of another.

We 'called by' because forums are a good way for us to get some genuine unbiased feedback on what the trade think of our products - it helps us to gauge where we are getting it right and wrong - which is very important to any business, especially one of our size.

In terms of posting a sticker on your van - is that not something you do every time someone comes to this forum looking for advice?

I made no point of advertising - and when I left a link for people to view how the internal and external corners are formed in Tilesafe (a point you raised - not me) it was deleted.

Argueing on this topic was not the point of the thread and as the users of this forum are capable of making up their own minds on what seems to be going on here I have nothing left to say.

Of course, if people have genuine questions relating to products from Impey UK then we will do our best to answer them.

regards

 

[wetdec]

In terms of posting a sticker on your van - is that not something you do every time someone comes to this forum looking for advice?

Yes and all sponsors happily pay for the privilage


As I already said :

Its cool to have someone around from Impey as sometimes there are questions that are best answered by yourselves.

Chill... & welcome again

As others have said :

Remember to say hi in the Newbie forum just to let everyone know you are here...

tilersforums.com Tiling & Tile Forum (Tilers Forums)




Dayley people drop in here post about their product drop in a link as pure advertising and move on......

You seem to know your way around forums so will apreciate how important saying hi is in building trust rather than just dropping posts in where you think they will best benefit you. Alternatively you could of contacted the board owner and shown your interest in supporting us.



I am protective of the community.............................




tiler

 

[uug197h]

I for one like the impey product and have fitted a number of them i have also replaced a number of wedi wet rooms with impey because the wedi system was incorrectly fitted by some numpty, we have also fitted under tile heating on to the matting and tiled directly over the wire (you need to take care when doing this but it works) NO NEED for leveling compound so you have maintained the fall

 

[White Room]

Hello and welcome impey

 

[Highlander]

Think you need a chill pill wetdec no way to welcome anyone new. I have used Impey and have been stuck to the floor a few times even left my leg last time i laid it. End of day guy is only giving advice about the tile safe product no need for the jugular attack for the thoat not as if he was offering half price products.

Anyway you were going to send me samples of your products but never heard anything from you.

So chill mate "every days a good day"

Highlander

 

[andy-p]

Think you need a chill pill wetdec no way to welcome anyone new. I have used Impey and have been stuck to the floor a few times even left my leg last time i laid it. End of day guy is only giving advice about the tile safe product no need for the jugular attack for the thoat not as if he was offering half price products.

Anyway you were going to send me samples of your products but never heard anything from you.

So chill mate "every days a good day"

Highlander

:hurray: :hurray:

 

[tilex]

As a wet room and bathroom installer i have to say that the impey system is superb and if installed correctly should give no problems

 

[cornish_crofter]

Question for IMPEY

Can I install one of your formers striaght onto a concrete floor, after digging out some of the screed to give room for bedding down the tray in mortar, and sorting out the drainage?

I have a client who wants me to install a wet room ina 5x3 room. One of your trays (1850 x 900) seems suitable for the job, as I can come out of the room by 12 inches or so. I don't want to have to screed a slope and fit a gulley etc, I would much prefer to use a 100% waterproof product that I can fit to a level and have it run off in the right direction.

However, my research to date regarding your trays gives me conflicting advice.

 

[Impey UK]

Hi,

yes the Aqua-Dec is suitable for use in both timber and concrete floors. As you said, just remove enough of the screed to bed the 'Dec down onto a mortar bed and allow for the drainage.

We recommend a bed of around 25-30mm dry (ish) 5-1 mix and then after 24 hours to screw and fix the 'Dec into position.

Obviously ensure the Aqua-Dec finishes flush with the surrounding floor.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Impey

 

[wetdec]

If your using a former into concrete you have 2 options with grp, 1 is the aqua-dec former the other the tuff2 former.

The structure differs in both cases the Impey aqua-dec has a flat bottom and therefore little advantage of grip, the tuff2 former has a hollowed out base with crossing members so has good surface area and ties well when bedded in.

An important factor when laying anything of little depth into concrete is the deflection/vibration can have adverse effect if there isnt a good tie to the adhesive material.

Both the Aqua-dec and tuff2 can be found here :

Impey Aqua-dec Tuff2 wet room former


If you need anything further please shout.

Tiler

 

[cornish_crofter]

Wetdec

I think I've spoken to you on the phone. We discussed the Impey product but you considered it to be less suitable for a concrete floor than the Tuff2.

One idea I had was to dig out the floor and run some timbers bedded into the concrete, then screw the impey former onto those. On reflection this seems a lot of work when I could just bed it into the mortar.

Using the Impey product would require me to drill holes into the mortar and fix with plugs. One assumes the Tuff2 wouldn't require that treatment, am I right?

If so then the Tuff2 is much more expensive for the size I need (app 1500x900), and I have to cut it down to fit the area I need to do - remember, I'm converting a downstairs toilet to a wet room.

 

[Daveyboy]

Hi Impey, welcome to the forum....I use the Impey tilesaft membrane and trays and generally don't have a problem with it. However, I don't tend to put the membrane outside the 'wet' area of the wetroom because the underfloor heating sytems I use are not compatible and I really don't like using the mat system this is. Never had a leak so far...touch wood!!