Faulty or defective adhesive

megthehen · Oct 25, 2021

I’ve just had my bathroom renovated by a chap recommended by my neighbour.Firstly he quoted by day abs said it would take 10 days! It took 22 so labour cost was £4000I’ve had him come back because the floor tiles are moving and grout cracked. He re grouted using silicone
Now a tile has fallen off the window frame. He has used dot and dab method. He is adamant that the tile adhesive I got from the tile warehouse with the tiles must be defective.
He has used dot and dab onto plasterboard even In The shower. Should I be worried about how waterproof my shower will be. Is it likely to be faulty adhesive. Not sure if I should just get someone else to redo this

Dave · Oct 25, 2021

He is at fault , totally wrong fixing method. As for 22 days. Wow

megthehen · Oct 25, 2021

Dave said:
He is at fault , totally wrong fixing method. As for 22 days. Wow

would you advise re tiling the whole bathroom?
He is convinced it’s not the dot and dab but the adhesive itself. He’s co rodent that the shower will be fine. Obviously I’m worried it will go badly in the future. He was very offended that I suggested it was his workmanship. As for the 22 days. That was to plumb abs til the whole bathroom and move the door. It’s a 2mx2m bathroom, shower only. It’s seemed to take forever

Dave · Oct 25, 2021

megthehen said:
would you advise re tiling the whole bathroom?
He is convinced it’s not the dot and dab but the adhesive itself. He’s co rodent that the shower will be fine. Obviously I’m worried it will go badly in the future. He was very offended that I suggested it was his workmanship. As for the 22 days. That was to plumb abs til the whole bathroom and move the door. It’s a 2mx2m bathroom, shower only. It’s seemed to take forever

His fixing method does not comply with BS5385. Personally looking at the window head where the tile fell off , he’s hardly even attempted to get coverage. So if the rest of the room is the same then it could be a risky chance you take.

megthehen · Oct 25, 2021

Dave said:
His fixing method does not comply with BS5385. Personally looking at the window head where the tile fell off , he’s hardly even attempted to get coverage. So if the rest of the room is the same then it could be a risky chance you take.

Thanks. This is what I feared

bsc ceramics · Oct 25, 2021

I would be very worried about having a shower if i was you.
His methold of fixing is wrong and as said above does not comply with
any standards.
Sorry but it all needs to come off and be re done.
Now the hard part is trying to get your money back.
22 days is maddness, iv known houses build quicker than that...
Unless he holds his hands up it looks like a court battle, but it all
points to being in your favour.
Keep us posted and let us know how you get on

megthehen · Oct 26, 2021

He will not admit that it’s not acceptable. He’s blaming the adhesive, the fact that the plasterboard was uneven ( he replaced all the boards)
He got very upset and said I was calling him a cowboy. He left without repairing it and said he won’t be fixing it in the next two weeks. I’ve paid him £3500 of the £4540 he invoiced.
He did my neighbours bathroom and had to come back because a floor tile cracked. He’s working for another 2 people in our close at the moment. He’s bad mouthing me to them saying I’m just causing trouble. I’ve decided I will just get another tiler to redo the floor and window. Thanks for your input

Dave · Oct 26, 2021

megthehen said:
He will not admit that it’s not acceptable. He’s blaming the adhesive, the fact that the plasterboard was uneven ( he replaced all the boards)
He got very upset and said I was calling him a cowboy. He left without repairing it and said he won’t be fixing it in the next two weeks. I’ve paid him £3500 of the £4540 he invoiced.
He did my neighbours bathroom and had to come back because a floor tile cracked. He’s working for another 2 people in our close at the moment. He’s bad mouthing me to them saying I’m just causing trouble. I’ve decided I will just get another tiler to redo the floor and window. Thanks for your input

Go show your neighbours in your close what he does. His methods are wrong and a tike falling off shows just that. so if he say’s the adhesive is at fault , then is he saying the whole bathroom will fail because the adhesive is faulty. ?

Ajax123 · Oct 26, 2021

it looks like real live rogue trader stuff. He will presumably be doing the same to your neighbours.

Adhesives are very rarely "defective". theres not uch to go wrong. Get the adhesive rep to pop out and have a look. he/she will confirm where teh fault lies for you.

Trigger · Oct 26, 2021

Hi

Firstly, before I get abused I would like to agree with all of the comments above. It has not been done correctly and it is very unlikey that there is a fault with the adhesive. If you can find out the manufacturer of the adhesive I am sure that a sample can be tested to see if it is at fault (I know this can be done with plaster, never needed to try it with tile adhesive). If they can confirm the adhesive is not at fault it will work in favour if you intend to pursue it.

Here is the unpopular bit, having looked closely at the picture I suspect the reason it has failed is down to dust on the back of the tile causing it not to bond and not the fact that it has been dabbed. I think you can see the white dust stuck in the adhesive.

The fact that it has been dot and dabbed does not necessarily mean the rest of it will fail (although no one can guarantee that). I have taken many many tiles up over the years thats have been dot and dabbed and they showed no sign of failing. The only way those tiles were coming off was with a hammer and chisel.

Good luck getting it resolved.

bsc ceramics · Oct 26, 2021

Time to get nasty....

Dan · Nov 9, 2021

megthehen said:
He will not admit that it’s not acceptable. He’s blaming the adhesive, the fact that the plasterboard was uneven ( he replaced all the boards)
He got very upset and said I was calling him a cowboy. He left without repairing it and said he won’t be fixing it in the next two weeks. I’ve paid him £3500 of the £4540 he invoiced.
He did my neighbours bathroom and had to come back because a floor tile cracked. He’s working for another 2 people in our close at the moment. He’s bad mouthing me to them saying I’m just causing trouble. I’ve decided I will just get another tiler to redo the floor and window. Thanks for your input

How did you get on with this Meg? Any update from the tiler?

Dan · Nov 9, 2021

Trigger said:
Hi

Firstly, before I get abused I would like to agree with all of the comments above. It has not been done correctly and it is very unlikey that there is a fault with the adhesive. If you can find out the manufacturer of the adhesive I am sure that a sample can be tested to see if it is at fault (I know this can be done with plaster, never needed to try it with tile adhesive). If they can confirm the adhesive is not at fault it will work in favour if you intend to pursue it.

Here is the unpopular bit, having looked closely at the picture I suspect the reason it has failed is down to dust on the back of the tile causing it not to bond and not the fact that it has been dabbed. I think you can see the white dust stuck in the adhesive.

The fact that it has been dot and dabbed does not necessarily mean the rest of it will fail (although no one can guarantee that). I have taken many many tiles up over the years thats have been dot and dabbed and they showed no sign of failing. The only way those tiles were coming off was with a hammer and chisel.

Good luck getting it resolved.

There is an argument to be had in saying that if you dot enough, then dab a lot, you might get the coverage percentage right and hold on.

But then there are other rules it doesn't conform to.

And one main one being as it needs 90 - 100% coverage in wet areas, and 100% no arguing for floors, then it just takes too much time dotting and dabbing.

Often done decades ago. But it's the sign of an untrained and unskilled tiler these days with the adhesives and grouts we have as options, and the tile weights that need to be installed etc.

So the neighbour needs a clip around the ear. I bet he got a nice £400 drink out of it by the sounds of it too.

Phone-a-tiler · Jan 31, 2022

Great previous comments guys
If the tiles are non porous porcelain then the tile should be buttered fully as well.
Code is saying not to spot fix.
In a wet area, condensation can form behind the tile particularly near the window (same as in between a failed double glazing panel )
Tiler could have cut the window face tiles to allow for less overhang of the head so less adhesive was needed.
Siliconing the floor tiles is beyond poor to fix the problem. If tiles are moving silicone will fail eventually and movement could also pull the waterproofing .
If the walls are uneven and he fitted the boards, he has no excuse
Im wondering how good his waterproofing will be?
Only good point is he has done a good mitre but for 22 days it should be good

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