A second opinion request

[John & Mary]

We just want some advice as to whetheror not the job our tiler did is satisfactory, he argues it is, we areless sure but would value a second opinion.


We used the tiler recommended by theshop. He laid expensive Welsh Slate tiles which had been diamond cutone side so were all virtually 9mm. The bathroom floor had beenconcreted and was flat according to the spirit level prior tostarting. We had Dukkaboard laid across the floor and three strips ofunderfloor heating near the middle of the room (the shop suggested – and we agreed - it waspointless to heat under the bath, shower, sink, toilet and bidet).


He laid the board, heating, and tilesbetween 8:30 and 1:30, and came back the next day to grout and polishwhich took a couple of hours. He didn't use any leveller. There was no heating in the room.


The display in the shop had the tilesthat were at the same level. We expected this but got lippage acrossalmost half the floor (the green arrows in the overview picture showwhere we thought there is lippage, the remaining pictures are examples) – and were told this was to beexpected with these types of tiles. Is he right?

 

[suave]

welcome!

 

[northstar]

Hi and welcome, what area do you live in ?

 

[peteablard]

The aren't lips they look more like steps!!! In my opinion it looks totally unacceptable. Quite often with slate you do get some lippage however a professional tiler would dress them with a chisel and reduce it to a minimum. If you are having no luck with the tiler I would get someone from the tile shop who recommended him to come and have a look at it. Please keep us informed of your progress and good luck with sorting it.

 

[Del W]

What he has done is unacceptable.A decent tiler would not be happy with that finish.

 

[JLM Tiling]

Also was the bond supposed to be that random? As in the grout lines?

 

[nybor62]

not good at all, they could have been dressed as comment above stated, there also seems to be quite a bit of grout residue left on the tiles

 

[nybor62]

oh and welcome to the forum

 

[On one]

Those slates don't look riven enough to warrant needing to be dressed,they are just badly laid! Could i suggest because he didn't use SLC the lippage could be caused by not using a big enough notched trowel to get over the height differences from cabled to non cabled areas of the floor.

 

[Fliselege]

That's not lippage, it's very poor work. Have you paid him? If not, don't. Maybe take these pictures to the tile shop and show the salesman what a cowboy he recomended.

 

[NZ_Tiler]

When laying a brickstyled pattern or staggered grout joints like this, extra care needs to be taken getting the tiles/stone straight. A straight edge or long level should be placed across the surface of the first row laid. If there is a hump or hollow this will inevitable cause lippage, on the following courses to be laid.

 

[Dan]

The shop need a bit of a telling off there. They shouldn't be recommending guys that tile like that.

I just looked at the pictures and didn't read your full post, I was about to reply and say 'you should have got a tiler who came recommended' then I read 'Fliselege' above saying take the pictures to the shop so read your post.

Shocking.

If you sourced the tiler yourself I was going to say you've cut the wrong corner trying to get a better price by the looks of it. But if the shop has sent the tiler then I'd be taking it up with the tiler AND the shop.

It's a shame to see that, as it's nearly alright. I've seen a lot worse. It wouldn't have taken any longer to do it perfectly (that said I'd have spent extra time using SLC personally as it just gives a really nice floor to tile to and makes all that side of things quicker).

Love the arrows on the floor Careful you down get planes landing there.

 

[John & Mary]

Thanks very much to everyone who has replied - we are very grateful for your responses.

The tiler has been around again and relaid/replaced some of the tiles, and also added extra grout in a number of areas to reduce the trip hazard (although there is still a height difference between tiles). He has also chipped the corners on some tiles which were protruding but they now look odd. Finally, the width of the grout now varies between tiles. He said that if he relaid the entire floor we would still not get a better finish (even though as mentioned above the floor was professionally re-concreted and was flat and level prior to laying tiles).

We've been back to the shop in Bristol but they are reluctant to get involved citing a potential conflict of interest. We are extremely disappointed as we used a local shop as we try to support our local community. We were not trying to do this on the cheap and the shop certainly was not the cheapest.

We don't know what to do next - we can't afford to rip it out and start again, but although less dangerous it is still not right and each time we go into the bathroom we are reminded of the unhappy situation we find ourselves in.

We would be grateful for any advice on what to do next. Do we insist that the shop gets involved? Do we request another tile to review the floor?

Once again many thanks to everyone for your help.

 

[charlie1]

5 hre to fit slate, the board and the heating says it all. looks about 7m2 to me? I wonder what he charged you for that mess? Thats crap J&M

 

[jay]

Slate is a natural product and if you were expecting a mirror Finnish its not going to happen ,but the lippage you have may of been avoidable ,

question 1 Did the tiler view the slate before fixing and tell you what the quality of it is. this should of been discussed as the tiler was sorting the slate (thicknes graded bowed or twisted ones placed to one pile to be used as cuts or out of main walk areas )

the look of the job is disappointing but what was the quality of the slate

this pic shows poor quality slate bowed
The sad part is the tile shops (normally) place the better quality ones on the display (because crap is harder to sell)

Question 2

did you agree with the pattern the slate is fixed ////

 

[DHTiling]

The pattern is 2 sizes of tile,how else would it be laid.

As to the floor, unless the slate is a perfect honed tile and fully calibrated then this small lippage is acceptable.

Slate is clefted and does bow slightly if not machine finished both sides.

Let's not hang this tiler when no one but the tiler knows the grading of the stone.

And as for chiseling slate edges that finish of surface is crazy. It will ruin the look.

The backs are machined to get them as flat as possible on that type of calibrated slate and the surface isn't heavily clefted like hand split slate.

As with jay , careful selection can minimise lipping but not 100% avoidable.

If you have spares, then stand a few edge on and check for slight bowing and thickness variation end to end.

But I had to sort of stick up for the tiler here a bit, when we do not know the grading of the slate and I have laid enough of it over the years to know the finish you can get.

What will also say is , a wider joint would have helped if the calibration wasn't the best.

 

[jay]

Take it you mean one 800x400 to one 400x400 thought it was meant to be all one size 400x800 (guestanent on sizes)

 

[Time's Ran Out]

I'am with Dave on this tiler - sometimes the materials dictate the finished surface and as it's not 'honed' a riven texture will give this result.
If you take the tile marked in front of the wc pan - the corners are alternate high which would show a bend in the tile.

 

[Topshop]

That floor could be ground in place to minimize the lippage or cut it all down flat but you would loose the cleft look.

Many of the slate floors I have seen here in the US are lipped like that but let's face it we may not have as well trained tile setters as you do in the UK. Slate is just a poor material to work with all together.

 

[NZ_Tiler]

If you take the tile marked in front of the wc pan - the corners are alternate high which would show a bend in the tile.

That is a good point, but if he had spares, he could have left that piece out, or used it for a cut on along the wall.

But yeah thats the nature of slate.

I think this tilers biggest problem was communicating with the customer. If he had explained these things beforehand, this theard may not exist

 

[charlie1]

take back my earlier opinion, didnt realise it was natural slate! considering that, its not bad tbh

 

[NZ_Tiler]

John & Mary, did the tiler explain to you both, how to maintain and seal the slate? Has he already applied a sealer?

 

[John & Mary]

Thanks all for your comments - It is very much appreciated. To answer the question on the quality of the slate, then if was nearly £45.00 per meter squared and we were assured by the shop that it was the best quality that you could get which at that price I would expect to be top grade. The slate was machined on one side and looking at the couple that are spare there is no variation, bowing or anything else. I.e they are absolutely bang on.

Where I am still a little confused with the comments in the thread is that as mentioned in the first post, we had the floor relayed with concrete and it was bang on flat and level across the whole floor. So as the floor was flat and level before the tiles were laid and then when the tiler had finished it was not flat or level - slopes by nearly 10cm to the side where the underfloor heating was not laid (cos this is the side that the shower and toilet etc were placed) how can the tiles not be lipped/different heights? I'm not a tiler but this seems common sense - I'd be grateful for an opinion from any experienced tiler to help me understand where my logic is flawed.

 

[John & Mary]

Sorry previous thread advised slopes by 10cm, I meant of course 10mm

 

[jay]

Guessing here that the tiler did not lay a self leveling compound over the floor heating ,could be a reason why your floor is out of wack,as for the slate place two pieces face to face (finished side to finished side )and view remember every piece is different