Advice on adhesive fault/failure please

[zoeoutside]

Dear all

I would very much appreciate your input into the following situation:

Thurs/Fri morning - tiles put on wall using 3 bags of a store's own brand powder adhesive which is supposed to set in 2 hours

Fri - late afternoon, grouting

Monday morning - polish grout off, see that tiles have slipped - wonky uneven grout lines (as opposed to Friday) plus significant lippage. Excess adhesive put to one side to harden before disposal is like silly putty - nowhere near going off. (The excess eventually hardened after 10 days.)

Various tiles taken off wall - it appears that 1/3 of tiles stuck no problem, on the other 2/3s, the adhesive was as unset as that left out.

Two of the adhesive bags had the same batch/manufacturer code, one was different.

Tiles put on by professional tiler.

Do you think that a reasonable conclusion might be that the two matching code bags were faulty? Store is adamant that their adhesive is not at fault.

Many thanks

 

[peteablard]

Was there a date of manufacture on the bags?

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

Dear all

I would very much appreciate your input into the following situation:

Thurs/Fri morning - tiles put on wall using 3 bags of a store's own brand powder adhesive which is supposed to set in 2 hours

Fri - late afternoon, grouting

Monday morning - polish grout off, see that tiles have slipped - wonky uneven grout lines (as opposed to Friday) plus significant lippage. Excess adhesive put to one side to harden before disposal is like silly putty - nowhere near going off. (The excess eventually hardened after 10 days.)

Various tiles taken off wall - it appears that 1/3 of tiles stuck no problem, on the other 2/3s, the adhesive was as unset as that left out.

Two of the adhesive bags had the same batch/manufacturer code, one was different.

Tiles put on by professional tiler.

Do you think that a reasonable conclusion might be that the two matching code bags were faulty? Store is adamant that their adhesive is not at fault.

Many thanks

ask store to send a samplele to ceram and you will do the same give them a sample and ask them to sign your sample tell them you want all cost to be rebursed if falt is found and to compasate you for all the trouble on top should do the trick

 

[zoeoutside]

Hi Pete, I think it was a date of manufacture on the bags - unfortunately in an act of incredible naivety, all 3 bags were returned to store without making a note of the different codes/dates. I am 100% sure that two were the same and one was different though.

 

[zoeoutside]

Ray, supposedly store has had sample tested by their supplier (I think - will check tomorrow). Depending on the time of day (literally!) their story changes from "we tested it, no problem" to "we couldn't test it because it had set" to (another day, another sample) "we tested it, no problem". Thanks for the headsup on CERAM.

 

[john anderson]

Had bad batch issues with Topps recently. They admitted a problem with it.

 

[Sean Kelly]

Zoeoutside, your location is England. North or South? Is your tiled wall inside or outside? Is it very cold where this tiling took place?
Maybe the adhesive is faulty.
Maybe the adhesive was not mixed correctly.
Maybe it was too cold to tile........if it was below 5 degrees C then it is too cold.

Hope the above helps.

Cheers
Sean

 

[zoeoutside]

Hi Sean, down in south, definitely nowhere near as low as 5 degrees, inside walls both, one guy did all the work, mixing and tiling. I just find it somewhat suspicious that with 3 bags, 2 with matching codes/date, 2/3s of the tiles did not stick properly and the leftover adhesive had not gone off - not so much as a crust on it 3 days later. The tiles that DID stick were the first to go on.

My suspicion is 2 bags of faulty adhesive, but store is not having it.

During the day window was open, evening/night heating on. Leftover adhesive STILL unset after over a week, again evening/night heating on.

 

[kilty55]

sounds like somethign wrong with addy.....was all adhesive same brand/type and no different brands were mixed?

 

[zoeoutside]

Kilty, all 3 bags were same store brand, only difference was 2 bags had same date/code number while the third was different.

 

[zoeoutside]

John, that's very useful to know. Do you have any more details, please? Did they just take your word for it, send it for testing, something else?
Thanks

 

[Dougs Third Go]

is it possible that your tiler "knocked up" the adhesive? ie added more water after the initial mixing?

 

[philipb]

Hi Zoe,
I have had a similar problem to your's,tile shop was unhelpfull,best to contact the
adhesive manufacturer direct,talk to there tech department,try to get them to help,
Good luck.

 

[DHTiling]

If you let us know the shop brand name, then we can tell you the manufacturer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zoeoutside]

Philip and David, sorry for being a bit cagey, but don't want to prejudice anything if we end up going down the legal route to claim costs. Store already sent for testing to their supplier and we were told first that they had tested it and there was no problem, second that they couldn't test it because it had set and third, back to tested and no problem. This was straight from the manufacturer.

Ray suggested sending to CERAM for testing which I will look into, but see that on their website they say they don't deal with the public, so will have to ask builder (who employed tiler) to do that. Does anyone have an idea of how much they charge?



Thanks

 

[zoeoutside]

Doug, I didn't stand over him the whole time, but will ask. Why might he do that? To make it go further?
Ta

 

[AliGage]

Were the bags brought straight to the property and used or were they stored at all? Could they of got damp? What brand did you use?

 

[zoeoutside]

Ali, bought from store on either Tuesday or Wednesday evening, used Thursday and Friday. All travelled together and were put in the same place.

Not naming store at moment just in case that prejudices future actions.

Ta

 

[Gazzer]

I am afraid that if we can not know all the details then we cant really advise any further. Anything said will just be assumptions made on products not known to us.

 

[zoeoutside]

Sir Ramic, I really don't mean to try and make it difficult for people. I just am wary of naming the brand at the moment as we are still going back and forth with the store trying to sort this out and I don't want to prejudice any chance of that happening.

Basically I'm trying to find out if there is any other reasonable explanation other than the adhesive being faulty. Members have been very helpful, pointing out areas to question - temperature (ruled out), damp (ruled out).

Other than the actual brand name, is there any more information I can provide?

Thank you

 

[AliGage]

Grey or green bag? Well known retailler of tiles?

 

[zoeoutside]

Ali, white bag with blue label, not a tile retail specialist.

 

[DHTiling]

Stab in the dark... just "like" my post if agree was It TOPPS.

we know that there are very few stores that have their own brand name on the bags.

 

[AliGage]

That was my guessas well Dave.

 

[zoeoutside]

Guys, there are/were replies in the pipeline, but being a new member, I'm still on moderation (hasten to add, I'm NOT complaining - I've seen the havoc trolls have wreaked on other forums) - just didn't want you to think that I'm ignoring answers because I don't like them. I am very grateful for everyone's time and contributions.