Advice on adhesive fault/failure please

[AliGage]

Ali, white bag with blue label, not a tile retail specialist.

Ahh that be a wickes product then?

The fact that it's not setting in-time or at all suggests to me that the bag has got a little damp, not surprising if it has come from wickes. But also thinking about it, as it's come from a high street DIY store, i can't see them paying particular attention to the dates etc on the bag. You could of had some old or out of date stock that's been slung on top of the new pallet.

If the bag has been stored incorrectly though and has become slightly damp this could activate the chemical reaction in the adhesive but be too dry to bond, if that makes sense? The bags weren't torn or split/damaged were they? From the reduced trolly?
I can't see the stock being that old that they're out of date. It sounds very suspect that the bag has become damp to me through incorrect storage and/or maybe tearing or damage to the bags.

 

[AliGage]

Any idea how the powder looked and felt when the bag was opened?

 

[zoeoutside]

Ali, not from reduced trolly. No bag damage that I am aware of, but will check further with tiler and also about what it looked/felt like on opening.

Trying to do a Mr Spock logic here - the tiler is employed by the builder and it was the builder who bought the adhesive. So, if tiler suspected something wrong with adhesive supplied, it would be logical to call it to his/my attention so that if there was a problem down the line, he has covered his back by pointing out that he was not happy with the product he was being asked to work with? Tiler has worked for builder for years and there have not been any problems with his work.

If it had got damp in storage would that also explain the leftover stuff still being like silly putty several days later?

Thanks again

 

[Andy Allen]

why would naming the store prejudices any future action?

all your doing is asking on a tile forum if anyone knows why adhesive purchased from (maybe wickes) has not set...

not sure, but i dont think your braking any laws...

 

[zoeoutside]

Andy (and all) I may well be being over-cautious - but I don't want to be accused of libel (there I go again!).

btw, builder has just confirmed that when he took the bags/sample back to the store, he DID ask if it was possible that it had got damp in storage (apparently he's had this problem with plaster before) but was told that if it had got damp at all it would have lumps in it.....

I'm away from computer rest of the day, but will try to answer any questions tonight/tomorrow.

Again, my thanks

 

[AliGage]

but was told that if it had got damp at all it would have lumps in it.....

Not necessarily. Not hard, set lumps. The powder may have sections of "lumps" but these will simple break up by just pouring it into your bucket. If you get your hand in there first you can usually tell.
When i say damp as well, i don't necessarily mean wet. Everything your saying almost convinces me that this is the case. Regardless, if it was purchased and used pretty much straight away then your first point of call is the store you got it from.

The tiles that have been removed, are they still fixable, or have you had to skip them?

 

[White Room]

Dear all

I would very much appreciate your input into the following situation:

Thurs/Fri morning - tiles put on wall using 3 bags of a store's own brand powder adhesive which is supposed to set in 2 hours

Fri - late afternoon, grouting

Monday morning - polish grout off, see that tiles have slipped - wonky uneven grout lines (as opposed to Friday) plus significant lippage. Excess adhesive put to one side to harden before disposal is like silly putty - nowhere near going off. (The excess eventually hardened after 10 days.)

Various tiles taken off wall - it appears that 1/3 of tiles stuck no problem, on the other 2/3s, the adhesive was as unset as that left out.

Two of the adhesive bags had the same batch/manufacturer code, one was different.

Tiles put on by professional tiler.

Do you think that a reasonable conclusion might be that the two matching code bags were faulty? Store is adamant that their adhesive is not at fault.

Many thanks

So the grout was left over the weekend before cleaning off??????

 

[gamma38]

I've heard of wickes adhesive not drying from several people. I have not used the stuff myself but the average drying time from what I have heard is around 3 days. NOT BAD FOR A RAPID SET... I would never go near it.:yikes:

 

[zoeoutside]

AliGage - Ah, that's useful, thankyou. Tiles - pretty much skipped - the ones that had stuck came off in pieces (it was only by working out the pattern of whole to broken ones that we came to the conclusion that it must have been 2 bags that were off, not all 3) but even the ones that came off whole, the cost in labour to clean them off outweighs the cost of new tiles. We may be taking them all back to the store on Monday in about 20 rubble sacks

Whitebeam - as in polishing with teatowel, yes - wasn't told it had to be done at any particular time. It was sponged off on the Friday.

gamma38 - do you have any more details, please? The more evidence I can get of similar problems, the better. Much appreciated.

 

[Sean Kelly]

Water contamination?.....maybe.

 

[zoeoutside]

Sean - same (domestic) water source used throughout...

 

[john anderson]

John, that's very useful to know. Do you have any more details, please? Did they just take your word for it, send it for testing, something else?
Thanks

They said that they had a big problem with a bad batch of rapid flexy white and were getting a lot of complaints. Gave me 4 bags of a new batch for free. Probs to keep me gob shut like.

 

[zoeoutside]

They said that they had a big problem with a bad batch of rapid flexy white and were getting a lot of complaints. Gave me 4 bags of a new batch for free. Probs to keep me gob shut like.

Hmm - builder was immediately given one replacement bag the evening he took the bags/sample back. Which is all very well if problem is apparent before the tiles hit the walls (and then slide off!).

Do you know who manufactures the Topps own brand? Not Weber by any chance?

 

[DHTiling]

Palace make Topps own brand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AliGage]

AliGage - Ah, that's useful, thankyou. Tiles - pretty much skipped - the ones that had stuck came off in pieces (it was only by working out the pattern of whole to broken ones that we came to the conclusion that it must have been 2 bags that were off, not all 3) but even the ones that came off whole, the cost in labour to clean them off outweighs the cost of new tiles. We may be taking them all back to the store on Monday in about 20 rubble sacks

Have you tried getting the store manager out to site to look at the mess. I had problems with a kitchen from said DIY centre, i didn't really get no-where until i insisted the manager attended the property.

 

[zoeoutside]

Ali, manager was AWOL from store for almost 2 weeks - not in when we were told he would be and then holidays. All tiles removed now and retiling commenced so not an option, unfortunately. I'll know better if there's a next time.

 

[macten]

If it was a big DIY shed you are talking about then do a bit of googling to get the contact details of the MD/CEO.
Post a letter with photos and detail the problems, store in question etc ... and reasons you feel let down by the company.
Worth a try - works wonders with B&Q; I have had some VERY VERY satisfactory and unexpected results from doing this.

 

[StevieBoy]

What sort of tiles are we talking about here? - ie Porcelain, Ceramic ??

Bet its Porcelain

 

[zoeoutside]

Sorry, all. have had friends visiting so away from computer.

Macten, thanks, will do that if we don't get any satisfaction from the store. Things complicated at the moment by massive flood at builder's other current site so he's trying to pull things together there at the mo.

Stevieboy, bog standard white ceramic tiles, 300x450.

 

[zoeoutside]

A quick update - still getting the runaround, store saying talk to Head Office, Head Office saying talk to store (which we are sorting as advised on here) BUT interestingly, the last time my builder called HO and asked to speak to the guy we've been dealing with there, lady on switchboard said

"Oh, are you the gentleman who called about 10 minutes ago with a problem with tile adhesive?"

"No," says my builder, "but good to know that other people are phoning in with same problem." :smilewinkgrin:

If any of you hear of any other cases, pls would you let me know as obviously, the more there are, the stronger our collective case.

Thanks all

 

[AliGage]

I think Macten is offering some good advice here. You can't hold off on works whilst you wait for the DIY cetre to pull there proverbial fingers out. I'd right a strong letter with some carefully chosen terminology like "not fit for purpose" and "consumer rights" and see if that prompts some action. If you have an experienced, qualified tiler doing your works as well get him to write a "report" of the failure and attach an invoice for the cost, inconvinience etc.

Keep us updated though.

 

[zoeoutside]

Ali, yes, we are definitely doing as Macten suggested including the terms you said. New tiles on wall now. Manager of store is AWOL again, so no updates until we get hold of him, probably towards the end of next week.

 

[AliGage]

Go straight to head office instead and inform them in the same letter how "unobtainable" the store manager is.

 

[zoeoutside]

Ali, the stupid thing is that HO are VERY reluctant to talk to us, saying that we have to go back to the store. They have been told several times that manager unavailable but say that whoever is on duty that day has authority to deal with it, but guy in store says he does not. Also, store manager says he will have to kick it upstairs to regional manager. Email already sent to HO but no reply yet. When I asked HO for their official complaints procedure, they said to complain to store and if not satisfied with store response, then THE STORE has to escalate it!

They will have one last chance next week and after that it's CEO emails of both Wickes and Travis Perkins, copied to Trading Standards and everyone else I can think of, plus some carefully worded tweets along the lines of "It's got our name on it - unless it goes wrong, then we don't want to know"

 

[AliGage]

Send a letter, registered, tracked and signed for. Then they HAVE to action it.