All tiles have not stuck

[G&B Bath&Tile]

Not sure if I'm supposed to reply to this or if it's a new thread, but anyway's. sorry if not

I would do just that, I always recommend and do a good vaccuming and or wet sponging to any of my backer. wetting the ply a little bit will help for the ply to not suck your moisture to fast from the addy/thinset.

Of course this goes against my beliefs of laying ANY floor tiles on wood... ;-)


Brett

 

[sheene222]

thanks guy's as a newbie and trying my hand at tiling after being made redundant in the print trade and having just spent a bit of time on a tiling course the advice here is great...thanks again

 

[ash9112000]

Hi, I know its probably a bit late but I would like to give my opinion.
Its doubtful that the adhesive was to blame, too thick, too thin, too much addy not enough addy etc. Most adhesives esp bal stick like sh#t to a blanket, sometimes even under the worst conditions. It sounds to me like the problem was too consistent for it to be a slight error due to bad workmanship. There had to be something on the ply that caused the tile adhesive to either react with a substance on the board, or simply the substance was so, that the adhesive was intolerant to it. Either way, if the ply had been only slightly porous it would have been enough to create a key, which would have meant that it would have stuck for longer than a week at least. The wbp glues are mainly melamine and phelonic, some are moisture resistant whilst some are regarded as permanent. If the wbp glue had absorbed itself into the surface of the ply it would have created a barrier against the tile adhesive. The absorption of the tile adhesive into the ply would have been next to nothing. Hence the reason why its stuck well to the tile and not the ply. I hope this gives at least some resolve.

 

[Superally]

I'm going along with "something on the ply" The BAL man tool one look at it and new something was wrong with the ply. Re did the job with fast flex. A proper learning experience!!

 

[grumpygrouter]

I'm going along with "something on the ply" The BAL man tool one look at it and new something was wrong with the ply. Re did the job with fast flex. A proper learning experience!!

Fast Flex...nice!??!!!?

 

[mike walker]

Like I keep saying men forget ply and use backer board its waeterproof and tile stick it it far better

 

[grumpygrouter]

Like I keep saying men forget ply and use backer board its waeterproof and tile stick it it far better

No good for adding strength to a floor though......

 

[mike walker]

No good for adding strength to a floor though......

have to disagree there Grumpy they do add strength but strength is rarely required its a good tiling surface thats needed

 

[G&B Bath&Tile]

1/2" hardi backer thinsetted and screwed sure does add strength. It seems like it extremely common for you pro tilers over the big pond to lay alot of tile directly over ply. Please take no offence but I know of no tile setters here that willingly choose to lay on ply for floor tiles. I mean we know "you can" set tile over most any secure substrate, but the only professional way is to use "a true backer" "membrame" or concrete. Wonder why it seems so commonplace over there, or is it?

Brett

 

[grumpygrouter]

have to disagree there Grumpy they do add strength but strength is rarely required its a good tiling surface thats needed

I have not seen one backerboard manufacturer that has said their product adds strength to a floor, but I an happy to be corrected. All the information I have seen states that the floor "should be adequately braced to eliminate movement". Hardie even go so far as giving a calculation to see how much deflection is acceptable.

If you have documantation that shows otherwise, please post it on here for us all to see. Wouldn't half make life easier if that was the case.

 

[mike walker]

1/2" hardi backer thinsetted and screwed sure does add strength. It seems like it extremely common for you pro tilers over the big pond to lay alot of tile directly over ply. Please take no offence but I know of no tile setters here that willingly choose to lay on ply for floor tiles. I mean we know "you can" set tile over most any secure substrate, but the only professional way is to use "a true backer" "membrame" or concrete. Wonder why it seems so commonplace over there, or is it?

Brett

Hi Brett it is quite common here to tile on ply but for me its backerboard all the time now

 

[G&B Bath&Tile]

HardieBacker™ cement board is recognized as an interior substrate according to the following:

• National Evaluation Service (NES), Inc., Report No. NER-405 (BOCA, ICBO, SBCCI)
• City of Los Angeles, Research Report No. 24862
• City of New York MEA number 223-93M
• HUD Materials Releases 1263d and 1268c
• Tile Council of North America handbook

Flexural Strength

Based on typical Equilibrium Moisture Content: 2100 psi when tested in accordance with ASTM test method C1185.

1/2" Hardi backer laminated (thinset + screwed) to 3/4" T&G (advantech) is pretty much bullet proof ;-)



Brett

 

[G&B Bath&Tile]

Thanks Mike Walker,
I can't figure out how to thank you like your supposed to... sorry

Brett

 

[grumpygrouter]

HardieBacker™ cement board is recognized as an interior substrate according to the following:

• National Evaluation Service (NES), Inc., Report No. NER-405 (BOCA, ICBO, SBCCI)
• City of Los Angeles, Research Report No. 24862
• City of New York MEA number 223-93M
• HUD Materials Releases 1263d and 1268c
• Tile Council of North America handbook

Flexural Strength

Based on typical Equilibrium Moisture Content: 2100 psi when tested in accordance with ASTM test method C1185.

1/2" Hardi backer laminated (thinset + screwed) to 3/4" T&G (advantech) is pretty much bullet proof ;-)



Brett

Thanks for the info Brett. Interestingly the document you link to for Los Angeles states that the board must be adhered and screwed to a minimum of 15.8mm t&g ply and also gives the deflection calc L/360 being the maximum allowed. Also, here in the UK, Hardiebacker 250 is specified for floor use, not 500 as this is specified for walls. Maybe you have a slightly different product spec over your way to what we have here. it is not normal practice here in the UK to specify plywood as a subfloor. Mostly we use 18 or 22mm t&g chipboard. Thereby lies the problem we think!

We have even asked the question of Hardie UK on these forums and was given the answer that the floor must have sufficient inherent strength as the board itself adds very little.

 

[Superally]

What in an ideal no cost issue world what would be the perfect floor to tile onto assuming you walked in and saw the floor joists i.e. no flooring whatsoever. After my experience it would be at least 18mm ply, 25mm ideally covered with hardibacker 250 then tiled....ignoring underfloor heating? His would also help with the build up of height.