Bodged up jobs ...

[bugs183]

Good thread fellas.
I think that there are as many bodgers around these days as before, but with the change of the tiles themselves problems occur more often.

Up until 15 years ago(ish) tiles were still quite small, there was little porcelain, and there was little stone about. Small ceramic tiles are easy to fix and will generally stick with any old adhesive, so the bodgers got away with it. No stone or porcelain meant easy cutting and no sealing problems.
The trade has advanced a huge amount from when i started 20+ years ago. The tiles are large and porcelain, so correct substrate prep is essential (try telling that a builder/customer at the end of the job!). The size means that bedding of the adhesive is super important, dot n dabbing is an easy way to get these big fellas flat, but it's totally wrong. The tiles themselves are harder to cut so any bodging is obvious, stone now is very popular and we all know what can go wrong there.

Trouble is you can buy these tiles from any where, and not be given any advise on fixing, some customers just want the 'look' but not the prepwork which costs money, and the tiler (bodger) may not know what he's doing or is just throwing them down as quick as possible to earn his dosh.

I'd would like to see regulation, but people will stay say 'i can tile' and do it themselves or get mate in to do it.

 

[DHTiling]

Would be good to hear from the public members who we know read the forums... what is your take on this..?

 

[area tiling]

As much as I like to help decent people with questions or give advice we are probably shooting ourselves in the foot with helping these Diyers ! You wouldn't see an electrician or to many plumbers saying go out and buy this product or that product, and do it this way or that way is best! I know we all get work from botch jobs , but its only going to get worse if we as tradesmen keep giving or advice s away for free! Just my opinion !

 

[mcarthurtiling]

Ive been to jobs that arent the best and the tiler has been in the game for years, there are guys in all trades who have got all the qualifications and still arent very good imo its down to who depends more from themselves on every single job not just ones they can be bothered on.

 

[ian158]

Agreed, the mentality is that anybody can tile.
I'm now employed with a couple of plumbers who have been doing their own tiling up to this point
They're a good couple of lads who don't cut corners and everything has to be right for them, exactly the way it should be
But almost everything I do tiling wise is questioned,
Why apd? We just use pva.
Why not tub adhesive
Why cement board, we use 9mm ply
When plaster goes pink you can tile
Why use different size trowels
Why did you set out like that
Can't you push the spacers in the joint and grout today
Why don't you grout internal corners

The truth is, even to the good tradesmen, which these lads genuinely are,
As long as the tiles are somewhat flat with minimal lips it is considered a job well done because tiling isn't important

It's a very sad situation :-/

I used to do all of the above...until i learnt from suppliers and a lot from here...so i thank you for that..my profession is not a tiler..in fact i dont have a profession...but I am very capable with what I do..improving at every turn..as yet no complaints......but I have the upmost respect for what you do..and very envious of what work i see you are able to turn out...very envious. I would also say this...that most if not all my customers like the fact that I can multi task (dodgy word ?)...in that they have one person doing the whole lot..which is why i get 75% of my work..the other 25% just dont like me lol !

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Ian - I'am in the 25% :smilewinkgrin:

There's nothing wrong in multi tasking if you don't go out of the building regulations and touch gas and electrics!
Tiling isn't regulated so 'anyone can do it' but to what standard?
As a finishing trade you'd think that people would want a decent job done, but unfortunately the passion isn't always there. How often do you hear - I hate grouting - by a tiler!
The passion is finishing every job to your own high expectations and if you have that philosophy then you'll do a good job.

 

[ian158]

Ian - I'am in the 25% :smilewinkgrin:

There's nothing wrong in multi tasking if you don't go out of the building regulations and touch gas and electrics!
Tiling isn't regulated so 'anyone can do it' but to what standard?
As a finishing trade you'd think that people would want a decent job done, but unfortunately the passion isn't always there. How often do you hear - I hate grouting - by a tiler!
The passion is finishing every job to your own high expectations and if you have that philosophy then you'll do a good job.

totally agree..electrics and gas i avoid, unless i run pipe work in dry and final connections and testing before and after are one by GASsafe plumber...but very rare I even touch gas being bath rooms and kitchens..grouting I like..as the final result is much quicker than the tiling itself...but I am limited to what I can do in the tiling trade..because i want to be...and it will stay that way, as some jobs require so much more effort and those are the ones I say no too...leave that to the clever chaps...

 

[Mr T]

Mate at least your out there earning... If your satisfied youve done the job to high standard and your customer is happy then thats all that needs to be done... I would advise letting customers know your not actually fully trained in these trades tho because if something goes bad your screwed lmao...

 

[ian158]

So I tell them i'm not a fully trained tiler...as if !...I tell them exactly what materials I use and why..as per all your recommendations...they read my appraisals from other customers..see my work on my website and that makes there mind up.....and that way if they get a cheaper quote/s because the other is not using the correct board, adhesive etc etc, they will know why its cheaper...as i've said i've no complaints yet...and even did a job for a builder who's regular guy has retired and he's giving me all his work from now on..when I m back in UK..so no cant complain i'm working and will have work when I return in June..But if I get to busy I have all ready decided to get quotes from "Professional tilers" and go from there..1. to see if its quicker..and if I can keep client from waiting too long. so keeps your eyes peeled in the Peterborough area

 

[Mr T]

Do you have any insurance?.. And was suggesting you tell customers the truth because if something goes badly wrong and your took to court your done for... But I suppose at the same time if you go around telling the customers your not qualified they will try to take you for a mug I.e bot pating for a job as your "not qualified' lol

 

[ian158]

yes £2 million...Mate i've seen no end of builders and plumbers do awful jobs..some silly little things...even had a plumber install a gas range cooker who charges £350 a day and had to tell him I wasn't happy with his gas connection and told him to position it so I could at least push the range in the gap so as not to put pressure on the gas pipe and the range dont stick out past the units, he didn't like it but £80 for 30 minutes work I want it right !

 

[Pernah]

Following up from my post on bodged up shower room...

I chose my tiler on Tile Shop owners recommendation - he was more expensive than 2 other quotes so I thought I'd get a better job - how wrong I was as found him doing d'n'd, he also forgot to fit tile to vinyl capping strip and stopped tiling when he came to the beginning of bathroom units instead of cutting a tile to shape round it to take tiling to end of wall which I asked him to do.

TBH I never knew until I came on this sight tilers could be qualified, but then again its just a 2 to 6 week course. Experience makes difference and its whether you know the art of tiling and how to use your tools,

I also suppose it come down to no-one knowing how much a pro tiler would charge compared to a cowboy and how do you identify a pro tiler? Qualifications don't make difference as its just a quick course, anyone can say they've got so many years experience and show pic's on website of someone elses job and TBH no-ones got the time to go to a previous job done 10 miles away before thinking of saying yes.

Do you guys have to pay TTA? If so get them to promote TTA by advertising with someone like Screwfix who are nationwide and would promote members/pro's through their website. Do TTA advertise i yellow pages/thomson local? Trading Standards could promote TTA registered tilers and if more and more customers went to TTA to choose their tielrs then more and more tilers would want to become members to get the work maybe?

 

[DHTiling]

Can I ask .... Why do you think it takes 2 to 6 weeks to train as a tiler. ?

An apprenticeship takes min 4 yrs like any other pro trade does.

See now if this is how the public portray tiling as a trade , then it is worrying

 

[andy8758]

Take a gander at the electricians forum if you want to see some more concerns about tradesmen cashing in on "anyone can do this" training. It does not start and stop with tiling. Bodged plastering is more and more obvious. Carpenters who cant cut wood straight. Bricklayers who cant fix a course of brickwork straight and level. Plumbers who can only push fit pipe connections..... The TTA needs to revise its role. Take a leaf out of the NICEIC handbook and start getting proactive - get involved with the makers of programmes like DIY SOS - give Dom Littlewood honorary membership of the TTA - look for dis-satisfied customers and get them publicity of their bodged tiling work in local media perhaps even helping them sue the offending tiler. And that's just a start. Its easy to criticise poor workmanship but a lot harder to do something to stop it happening again. I know you senior tilers are not policemen - but maybe you need to lobby the TTA to become something more than a just a Trade Body even if it means the TTA employing the policemen for you. There is a lot of pride on this forum (much of it fully justified) but the customers out there need to be educated by somebody and it could perhaps be you.

 

[The D]

Following up from my post on bodged up shower room...

I chose my tiler on Tile Shop owners recommendation - he was more expensive than 2 other quotes so I thought I'd get a better job - how wrong I was as found him doing d'n'd, he also forgot to fit tile to vinyl capping strip and stopped tiling when he came to the beginning of bathroom units instead of cutting a tile to shape round it to take tiling to end of wall which I asked him to do.

TBH I never knew until I came on this sight tilers could be qualified, but then again its just a 2 to 6 week course. Experience makes difference and its whether you know the art of tiling and how to use your tools,

I also suppose it come down to no-one knowing how much a pro tiler would charge compared to a cowboy and how do you identify a pro tiler? Qualifications don't make difference as its just a quick course, anyone can say they've got so many years experience and show pic's on website of someone elses job and TBH no-ones got the time to go to a previous job done 10 miles away before thinking of saying yes.

Do you guys have to pay TTA? If so get them to promote TTA by advertising with someone like Screwfix who are nationwide and would promote members/pro's through their website. Do TTA advertise i yellow pages/thomson local? Trading Standards could promote TTA registered tilers and if more and more customers went to TTA to choose their tielrs then more and more tilers would want to become members to get the work maybe?

This is exactly why I get the raving hump with training centres advertising there short practical courses as a full qualifications THEY ARE NOT in any way shape or form a full tiling qualification. No mater how you dress it up or word it a 1,2,3,4,5,6 week training course is nothing more than TRAINING it does not make you qualified. The only industry recognised qualification at the moment for a tiler is the NVQ 1,2,3 or 4

It does not matter if the sort course fast track in house certificate has had the approval of City & Guilds or the Construction Awards Alliance or the Learning Skills Council or The Tile Association if it is not an NVQ it is just a training certificate. IMHO