D
follow_along_with_video_below_to_see_how_to_install_our_site_as_web_app
Note: this_feature_currently_may_not_be_available_in_some_browsers
Discuss Butech anticracking anti fracture mat - experience? in the DIY Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.com.
Thanks, yes I noticed these areas in adhesive between screed and membrane that are not flattened and still ridged or notched. I was not around when tiles laid - are you saying the correct technique is to out adhesive on both back of tile and direct onto membrane before sticking it down?I would have to check but I think. Wrong size trowel for membrane to floor and not bedded in properly . Maybe adhesive a bit dry , see photo .
Also from picture of tile I think looking at tile edges it appears adhesive was applied to tile and not floor and that is why the bond is weak there View attachment 110489
Thanks a lot for taking an interest and your comments. I think I am reaching the same conclusion: Technique not perfect so hard to prove against manufacturer. We may well run test as you suggest.May be lack of technique isn't the reason for failure but because of this you would struggle to prove to a manufacturer that their system is faulty . I would stick a patch to the floor properly , stick a tile on top using the correct technique including collapsing the ridges , leave it for a couple of days if using rapid set then lift the tile and see what happens. Also maybe do another at the same time just in case it needs to be left longer.
It's the only way , for peace of mind for future installation as much as anything elseThanks a lot for taking an interest and your comments. I think I am reaching the same conclusion: Technique not perfect so hard to prove against manufacturer. We may well run test as you suggest.
Best wishes, Chris
John - very intersting. Certainly we are not getting a satisfactory bond across most of the floor. What I've come to realise is that as a non tiler, you take the advice of a sales person who tells you that this product is needed for your 'guarantee'. You take this at face value but then when something like this happens you think, what was that 'guarantee' anyway as they will always look at an issue with the installer.Ok my take on this mat!
I’ve used it a couple of times in August as it was specified by Porcelanosa and supplied direct to the customer ie. we were labour only!
In my opinion it’s just a roll of stiff J cloth type material that we stuck using their butech adhesive and weight rolled for complete adhesion.
Plank tiles were then fixed and grouted - all butech products.
On completion and within a month I noticed some grout missing, added more additive to grout as supplied and touched up. I showed the builder my concerns with their specified materials and he is aware of the possible outcome.
IMHO this matting is a waxy type surface layer that does not encourage a satisfactory bond with the tiles - so this OP thread is of no surprise to me and I envisage an awful lot more issues in the future.
To elaborate on @Dan post about the Dural failure of a few years ago - their popular decoupling membrane is a 2 part roll that uses an adhesive technology to weld the 2 layers together. A batch manufactured over a 3 month period failed and to their credit the German manufacturers settled every claim that was brought to their attention.
However like this issue now with the Butech matting the Tiler gets the blame first, guilt and responsibility sets in and without notification and support he offers to replace the failure at his expense.
On the Dural situation I knew I had done everything correct so stood my corner and after a short delay received a substantial compensation payment for the customer which allowed for redoing the floor and something for their inconvenience .
I have a roll of Butech mat from the August project which I was going to skip ( not a product I have any confidence in using again) but I shall now keep in case of future testing!
John
Looking at the images, some are not as they should be.
Adhesive definitely seems too dry in places, and a lot of adhesive under the mat. There should be no signs of trowelling, under mat or tile.
It’s not alwaybut you’ll be able to see why they’re reluctant to take responsibility.
View attachment 110504
[/QUOT
I am told screed was primed.Looking at the images, some are not as they should be.
Adhesive definitely seems too dry in places, and a lot of adhesive under the mat. There should be no signs of trowelling, under mat or tile.
It’s not always the case where one thing is the cause of a failure, quite often it’s a collection of small things that lead to a catastrophic failure such as this.
Its interesting to hear that both the contractor and tiler have agreed to take responsibility.
What’s led them to this decision?
Was the screed primed at all?
An un primed screed can suck all the moisture straight out of the adhesive, and would give the appearance of adhesive being to dry, as above in some images.
And an incorrect commissioning of the ufh would exasperate other issues.
This is a live demonstration video by Butech themselves.
I appreciate salesman technique may be present, but you’ll be able to see why they’re reluctant to take responsibility.
View attachment 110504
As far as I can tell have commissioned UFH OK.
Thanks for vid - have seen this from the Porcelanosa guy... He is a total believer in his product.
Welcome to the world of the installer. That is why if I want to use say a bal product and they if you use all our products on this job it's guaranteed I don't bother. I regularly use different primers to adhesives and grout and Silicon . .John - very intersting. Certainly we are not getting a satisfactory bond across most of the floor. What I've come to realise is that as a non tiler, you take the advice of a sales person who tells you that this product is needed for your 'guarantee'. You take this at face value but then when something like this happens you think, what was that 'guarantee' anyway as they will always look at an issue with the installer.
Thanks for your input. So your client is currently unaware of potential issues?
Yes, the tiler who did this job was gutted. He is not wealthy enough to replace materials but is giving his labour back for nothing.
Another tiler who looked at the floor said he'd done a job with Butech and so far OK but if this had happened to him he'd have a heart attack.
Still... it's only a floor, annoying but can be put right even if it means chucking more money and time at it.
Best wishes, Chris
[automerge]1571299406[/automerge]
Butech - Porce quick (3 hours set) and super one N 4 hour set.
[automerge]1571299534[/automerge]
Reply to Butech anticracking anti fracture mat - experience? in the DIY Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.com