chicken wire mesh in screed??

[Moonraker]

Hi guys

and I'm merely a fleeting visitor to this Forum, which I found after Googling my query and saw it had some good posts about screeds.

I've had to have most of the rubbish mid-1970s pipes under my kitchen floor replaced and I now have 5 metres of trenches between 100mm and 150mm wide. I intend to use a fast-drying screed mortar, and a friend who project manages largish construction work has advised that I include chicken wire mesh to provide support for what will be about 40mm (in one stretch just 25mm) of screed above the lagged pipes. I guess that 13mm mesh would be suitable, but I'm wondering how co-operative it will be! I have visions of a curvy 600mm strip flexing up and down and me pressing it into position and hoping that the weight of the mortar will keep it down. I also see that PP fibres can be added to the mortar to strengthen the screed but I suspect that as a layman I may have trouble sourcing these locally in the small quantity that I shall need. (I live in Reading.)

I'll be making a point of tamping the mortar around and under the pipes and in due course will be laying vinyl tiles.

Any thoughts on the desirability of using mesh? Indeed, any thoughts at all?

And don't hesitate to suggest that I may be better off getting a professional in, but the job is a very small one and I do wonder if some tradesmen will be that clued up about what should be done.

Thanks.

Moonraker

 

[White Room]

Hi and welcome.....chicken was used many years ago when putting an insulation below the screed, just help with any movement and gives it some support.

The fibres you talk of most builder merchants sell it and if you do go ahead with using it sprinkle some of the fibres into your mixing water so it disperses easier and mixes better with your screed.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

HI Moonraker wire mesh is a bit out of date these days mate ,use PPF you can pick them up in packets to suite your mix size from any good builders merchants

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

Beat me to it Mark ,lol

 

[Dougs Third Go]

what about using either Weber Floor Flex or Tilemaster Levelflex? they'll do 50mm in one hit.

 

[Moonraker]

Thanks guys, that's helpful,and I'll check out Doug's suggestions.

It's been suggested to me that chicken wire mesh might eventually rust.

(I started to "make good" the upheaval in my kitchen today and checked the lagging on the pipe run that hadn't been replaced; it was rotten on top, so I'm chipping away at more screed - not worth hiring a breaker - in the hope that it gets better sooner than later; there's 2 metres to go! Guess it's better to get everything right now for the sake of time and some swearing.)

Moonraker

 

[Colour Republic]

you be careful with that lagging! it has been tested for asbestos right?????

How old is the house and what colour is the lagging?

 

[nybor62]

chicken wire not used that method for donkey years

 

[Ajax123]

Too thin for ordinary screed. Use a sbr screed or bettervstill Use a thick section levelling compound

 

[micko]

Your first post is not to clear to me but do not cover copper pipe in screed without giving them some protection otherwise they will rot. Use denso tape or lagging to cover them.

 

[Moonraker]

The house was built in 1976 and the lagging was probably light brown "horsehair" (?); most of it has rotted away and in some areas only the mesh remains, and sometimes not even that. The plumber slid horsehair (?) tubing over the new pipework, and I'm aware of the debate about its efficacy.

I gather that denso tape is awkward to work with, the more so where there's not much room to play with it.

The dehumidifier is being taken away this Friday and I'm about to decide on what to fill the trenches with, and I shall be following up your various suggestions. Thanks again.

(The good news is that an insurance assessor visited yesterday to inspect the hall carpet, a square foot of which was affected by the damp, and he's recommending that I get new carpeting for the hall, stairs and landing, as the 37-year-old original is all of the same pattern and there's some guideline about replacing all carpet uninterrupted by a door.)


Moonraker

 

[Mark S]

Try Mapegrout SV, purposed made shrinkaged control grout, or Mapegrout Fast set, from Mapei UK
They also do Mapefer tp protect pipes before grouting in.
Mark S

 

[micko]

Concrete reacts with copper and rots it away, if it were a new pipe I would use denso, with pipe that is all ready there as long as you cover it with something you should be OK.

 

[AMtek]

I once took up a bathroom floor that had been tiled straight on to chipboard but they had laid chicken wire onto the floor before adhesive. There was no sign of movement damage on the tiles and they were an absolute pig to get up!

 

[Ajax123]

I once took up a bathroom floor that had been tiled straight on to chipboard but they had laid chicken wire onto the floor before adhesive. There was no sign of movement damage on the tiles and they were an absolute pig to get up!

Excellent...

 

[Moonraker]

I’ve decided to use Ardex A35 to fill the channels, topped up with 2mm of NA smoothing compound. The Ardex technical people were very helpful, ringing me within 30 minutes of getting my email to discuss the situation, and a tile store within a mile of me had everything I needed.


Once the channels have been filled, I should have a kitchen floor with a quarter of the vinyl tiles removed above the pipe runs and leaving some pock-marked bitumen about 1mm thick. I shall be using Ardex P82 epoxy primer on it.


How acceptable is for me to use the levelling compound on the non-tiled areas and then lay new self-adhesive vinyl tiles over all the floor, including the existing tiles? (Do I hear yells of derision?)


If I do remove all the tiles, how essential is that I remove the bitumen residue before priming with P82? I’ve scraped a small area and most of it comes off easily enough.


What I can see of the original floor looks level, and I doubt my ability to spread compound over 10 sq metres. Were I to leave the patchy bitumen and prime the whole floor, with all tiles removed, with P82, would self-adhesive tiles fix happily to the surface, or would it help to apply mastic to those very shallow patches of the floor where there’s no bitumen, to fill in them ?


As before, your advice is appreciated.

Moonraker

 

[thompsonbrown]

years ago we used to fill pipe trenches with a layer of Mica for insulation layer of sand then back fill with concrete, as for the leveling of the whole floor without removing the tiles, it should be find, as long as you remove the bitumen, scratch the glazed surface then prime and self level. you might even save yourself a lot of hassel especally if these pipes have been leaking for years and the slab under the tiles is damp it could be months before you would be able to lay self level. just throwing a lot of what if's about really. hope it all works out.

 

[thompsonbrown]

just 1 more thing this trench is about 5mts long upto 150mm wide and to be fenced of with chicken mesh it sounds like your friend was more intrested in making a chicken coupe than laying a floor. but just to be on the safe side i would use normal wire mesh less chance of ending up with egg on your face.....:joker:sorry coudnt resist ..

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Just to add a shilling to the mix - before the introduction of flexible fast set adhesives or any other tile adhesive for that matter, the only way we laid tiles onto wooden floors was to cover the floor with bituman paper, fix the chicken wire to the paper and cover using a semi dry sand/cement mix. Then with a slurry to the back of the tile ( usually only quarries available) tamp them into place. A particularily bouncy floor of a gents toilet in an Indian restaurant I did in the early 70's was still in great (if not smelly) condition when I went back years later to build a Tandoori oven.
Ah the good old days - when half a days work then took 3 days!

 

[Moonraker]

Thanks guys. A bloke from a specialist drying company came on Tuesday and reckoned that the floor was now drier than average and took away a dehumidifier. As a precaution I removed the screed from around some pipework that hadn't been replaced and found most of the lagging had rotted, so replaced it with Denso tape laid along the pipes - there was no space to wrap it around. I also uncovered a small section of gas pipe that appeared to be completely unprotected. I'm definitly not going to dig down it, and in any case it disappears under the hall, a cupboard with a heavy safe in it and into a garage, so I'm going to have it blocked off - it would serve only a gas cooker that I don't have.

Odd that the original plumbers (who did little to inspire confidence back in 1976) used some yellow-sheathed piping for the hot-water supply under the kitchen floor; I understand that this is gas piping, yet they used ordinary pipes for the gas supply.

I'm told that Ardex P82 remains sticky for four days or so, during which tiles have to be laid, otherwise one has to prime all over again. I suppose there's no problem kneeling on vinyl tiles one has just put down to lay the next lot - perhaps kneeling on a board would be advisable?

Moonraker