Costing for hand made Moroccan tiles

[jonnyc]

Quoting for a job using hand made zellige Moroccan fez tiles. 50x50 mm
they come as single pieces so there wil be 400 pieces per mt.
tiles have to be fixed with virtually butt jointed but being hand made , this takes some time as have to shave edges off to lock in place tight.
i have fixed these when set on panel of 36 tiles and had to shave edges to link together and can bed out panels to come flush with each other but as single pieces which vary in thickness by 2-3 mm.this is going to take a lot of time. I am worried that i may loose whole job if go in too expensive on this aspect which is 13.00sq mts.

Anyone fixed these and what would you charge.
Just on to flat shower walls ans bath surround

 

[nybor62]

i dont do alot of work on day rates , but this sounds like one i would do on day rate

 

[Pebbs]

Jonny, you have to do this on day rate, it can be a nightmare otherwise. Just don't be drinking 10 cups of tea before mid-day or they get the raving hump!

Lynn

 

[jonnyc]

yes lynn, thats what always worries me about day work.
i always work on price unless there are changes once contract starts, in which case I occasionally work at day rate set out in my costs for this eventuality in my quote.
I have always been a great believer in giving a cost for a job rather than day works as i think this gives a the client an impression that i am au fait with the product and know what i am up against.
in this instance i do know the tile but have never fixed it as single piece tiles.
I think i will say that when i can see tiles on site i can give a fixed price based on the natural tile supplied. when i see this batch i will be know what i am up against.
this is not normal hand made tiles that vary a bit in thickness and size . they have to be jointed very close together

 

[jonnyc]

I should add that the cost will be way over and above the main contractors normal tiler, I imagine.
From what i gleened from main contractor , they take on all aspects of tiling, but with there being three other reclaimed floors to do in addition to afore mentioned tiles this is a very specialised job.
i will probably price myself out the job but only because i know and have fixed all the products in various forms.
its a shame because the end client is going to live in the house not the contractor who gives out the work.
I do not want to come over in the wrong way here.
I just get very frustrated when there is a fundamental lack of understanding from main contractors that they are dealing with specialist work that takes time.
I can really see myself losing the job because of my quote, but then the contractor may well be incurring alot of costs himself if it is fixed by another tiler not as the showroom.

 

[John Benton]

I should add that the cost will be way over and above the main contractors normal tiler, I imagine.
From what i gleened from main contractor , they take on all aspects of tiling, but with there being three other reclaimed floors to do in addition to afore mentioned tiles this is a very specialised job.
i will probably price myself out the job but only because i know and have fixed all the products in various forms.
its a shame because the end client is going to live in the house not the contractor who gives out the work.
I do not want to come over in the wrong way here.
I just get very frustrated when there is a fundamental lack of understanding from main contractors that they are dealing with specialist work that takes time.
I can really see myself losing the job because of my quote, but then the contractor may well be incurring alot of costs himself if it is fixed by another tiler not as the showroom.

You're right there jonny about the client having to live with the tiles and not the contractor . I would say he's looking at the £ and potentially missing the quality of the finish. I don't sub contract but would the contractor ever approach the client to ask for more budget to get someone who is expert in that particular tile. Surely it's in the clients interest as well to get the finish that reaches their expectations as I can imagine it's not a cheap tile.

 

[jonnyc]

You're right there jonny about the client having to live with the tiles and not the contractor . I would say he's looking at the £ and potentially missing the quality of the finish. I don't sub contract but would the contractor ever approach the client to ask for more budget to get someone who is expert in that particular tile. Surely it's in the clients interest as well to get the finish that reaches their expectations as I can imagine it's not a cheap tile.

john , i very much appreciate your comments.
I am of the same opinion.
the problem i guess and it is only a guess is that the main contractor may have been given the product spec and their estimator may not have really understood or indeed looked in to this type of product. He may have relayed to their tiler that it was hand made or reclaimed but unless you are a specialist in this type of thing , where i immediately need all the info of supplier , it may have been assumed that all these four recalimed products are just likea d
i can

 

[Pebbs]

Jonny you hit the nail on the head about the estimating. I get handed an M40, and a finishes schedule, I cannot know what every single tile/mosaic/stone/granite looks like, then the quote goes back into the main contractor for tender. If they win the tender, you don't know if they have used your prices for these works or someone elses. So the time comes around you go into the meeting and then you see the sample and think (jesus christ, Ive underquoted the labour element) or worse they say, you need to chop down your price on these, because one of your competitors has quoted less.

But on the very specialised stuff, they know they can't use the standard rates for fixing, so most of the time they are understanding about it. They won't and can't risk a mess up on the special stuff, you never know you may even be cheaper than what the estimator put in for the works.

Good luck.

Lynn

 

[Spud]

hi jonny you can cut down some of the time by sheeting the tiles up with brown paper and gum arabic and make up 30x30 sheets if you then fix vertical battens either side of the area to be tile and create a bay i would then find my thinest tile and cut a dog eared screed and apply a thick bed adhesive such as ardex x7 and float the adhesive between the battens rule off the excess adhesive with the screed rod and then beat the sheeted tiles home with a grout float ,you will get alot of adhesive coming through the joints but this can be brushed out with a nylon brush you can easily fix 4 sqm a day using this method and the cutting becomes easy as you can make measure the sheets and cut a 300mm run of cuts at a time with a grinder you will sheet up 2-2.5 m2 of sheets a day so in all it will take you 5-6 days to size and sheet the mosaic and 4-5 days to fix and grout it so i would price it at £3000 which will include the adhesive and grout

 

[jonnyc]

hi jonny you can cut down some of the time by sheeting the tiles up with brown paper and gum arabic and make up 30x30 sheets if you then fix vertical battens either side of the area to be tile and create a bay i would then find my thinest tile and cut a dog eared screed and apply a thick bed adhesive such as ardex x7 and float the adhesive between the battens rule off the excess adhesive with the screed rod and then beat the sheeted tiles home with a grout float ,you will get alot of adhesive coming through the joints but this can be brushed out with a nylon brush you can easily fix 4 sqm a day using this method and the cutting becomes easy as you can make measure the sheets and cut a 300mm run of cuts at a time with a grinder you will sheet up 2-2.5 m2 of sheets a day so in all it will take you 5-6 days to size and sheet the mosaic and 4-5 days to fix and grout it so i would price it at £3000 which will include the adhesive and grout

thanks gary . that sounds very interesting.
i had thought about setting some vertical battens just thick enough to accomadate thickest tile and min bed but not setting them on sheets in advance .
in fact the moroccans make panels of these by laying upside down and applying a cement backing .
they are same as the habibi tiles that you will probably have heard of.
the big job i did with these was in a pool and the tiles came on cement backed sheets, quite uneven thickness b, but solid and easy to bed out and trim edges to get a very tight joint.
i will try and find some pics of when tiling this.
we did a curved wall in single pieces and a scrolled border out thousands of tiny bits but client happy to pay me a day rate on that one for small pieces as had done whole of her house.
need to think about that and may call you for advice.

 

[jonnyc]

could only find finished article when pool full unfortunately . the base decorative panels were one piece and then 300x 300 panels cur t and set around.
canyt see scrolled border as under water line and humped coping