cracked wall tiles in en-suite

[axel]

hello, I am looking for some advice please. We had our ensuite redone in November and fully retiled. Last week I noticed fine vertical hair line cracks in two points extending up 6 tiles in one place and extending up 9 tiles in another, about 1 m apart. This wall is a false partition wall made from plasterboard I think. There are small gaps in all 4 upper corners and one crack in a corner which is made up of two exterior walls. I asked the person who did the bathroom to come and have a look and he said he had never seen anything like it before and was worried about something major like subsidence. I contacted our insurance company who sent someone out. They ruled out subsidence (which is a relief) and said they thought the problem was caused by thermal expansion at the plasterboard joints and that the only way really to avoidthis was to have taped the plasterboards before skimming and to use a flexible adhesive. I fed this back to our builder who said he never heard of such a thing and asked me to get another opinion.
Is this something you have heard of? Is it common? should be my builder have heard of it? Who else can I ask for an opinion ( other than yourselves, which I am grateful for). I don't want to attribute blame or anything I just want to understand what e problem is so I can get it fixed, I have a baby and 4 year old who will end up using this bathroom so want to get it fixed properly.

 

[White Room]

Hi and welcome.....what tiles are they, what adhesive was used powdered or tubbed......

 

[Ajax123]

Some pictures would help enormously here. It sounds likely that there is an issue with movement but there could be more to it than that. One thing is sure though you are better tiling to un skimmed plasterboard than you are to skimmed so the insurance company are not correct on that point at least.

 

[axel]

they were the White-Statuario-Marble-Effect-Wall-Tile-200-x-500mm- from B and Q ceramic. I will have to ask about the adhesive used and get back to you as I don't know. Thanks. Anything else I should find out while I am at it?

 

[Sean SML Tiling]

Theres your answer there "your builder" he prpbably dont even know whaytflexible adhesive is. IMO a fresh partition is going to expand and cause some air line cracks. He should use a flexible adhesive and grout to stop this. Knock the tiles with your nuckle amd if the sound hollow then you will need to replace it all.

 

[Rookery]

Some pictures would help enormously here. It sounds likely that there is an issue with movement but there could be more to it than that. One thing is sure though you are better tiling to un skimmed plasterboard than you are to skimmed so the insurance company are not correct on that point at least.

You're overlooking the fact that the insurance companies have whole departments doing nothing but thinking up reasons not to pay out on a claim.

 

[White Room]

Are these cracks within the shower area....

 

[kilty55]

are you sure the walls are boards and not plywood?

 

[axel]

hello, here are some pictures.

 

[axel]

some more

 

[axel]

one more

 

[axel]

to try and answer some questions, the two long vertical crack are at the bath. The partition walls are not new but existing, I don't know what they are made of, but will check. He said they used pva the powdered adhesive BAL or Mape.

 

[White Room]

hello, here are some pictures.View attachment 51748View attachment 51749

Are the window reveals which arn't tiled timber or plaster finish

 

[axel]

additional info that may or may relevant, two walls are external wall, the two walls with most cracks are internal walls. the bedroom on the other side is where I have been sleeping with our baby who was born beginning of January and therefore the room has been significantly warmer than it was back in November.

 

[Saltire69]

Looks like he's grouted corners. No room for expansion

 

[Mr T]

Grouted corners... how could he walk away from the job without grouting the corners... or should they have been syliconed?... and shouldnt there be a trim on the window reveal?

 

[andy8758]

Tile adhesive manufacturers recommend that tiles are fixed to plasterboard using a flexible tile adhesive (BS EN 12004 Class S1 usually) or use additives that make a standard adhesive flexible (BAL usually recommend their AD1 additive is used to mix adhesive). The reason for this advice is that some flex and expansion can be expected with drywall boards. To reduce flex the boards should be screwed at 300mm intervals and additional noggins (cross batons on backing frame). I can only recommend removing all the fixed tiles, adding extra fixings to the plasterboard and re-tiling with flexible adhesive. A lot of builders suffer from "I done it like this before" experience and qualifications. Get a second and third opinion. Then make the builder re-do the work or pay for it to be re-done. That's what we all have Public Liability Insurance for.... rofl!

 

[axel]

Should the corners not be grouted? Should they be siliconed instead? I am not sure what you mean about the window reveals? The window frames are PVC. When I find out what the internal walls are made of I will post back.

 

[Peter]

Was the plasterboard scrim taped over the joints? Corners should have been siliconed to allow for expansion and prevent the grout cracking.

 

[axel]

I will ask. Is scrim taping like Ames taping? If this is not done can it lead to the kind of cracking we have? So, to prevent it recurring, once tiles taken off, could someone tell me, ideally, what ought to be done?

 

[axel]

Thanks to everyone so far for your input.

 

[seph]

Looks like the tile cut around the window has cracked when the tiler installed. Also no trim which is bad. The inernal corners of the shower should be sealed aswell.

 

[SJPurdy]

As the tiles are cracking and not falling off then it implies to me that the adhesive is doing its job and sticking the tiles to the wall. I suspect that the walls are "moving" and causing the tiles to crack at the points of greatest stress - the substrate is trying to bend or a crack is opening; the adhesive holds the tile firmly and so the tile cracks! As you indicate the internal wall is most affected and there has been more heat the other side of this to cause drying out of timbers etc. and so shrinkage and twisting. I know this doesn't help you but i'm just putting forward a different opinion ( and remember we are all guessing from a brief description and a few (not very clear on my pc) photos).I agree that the corner joints should have been "filled" with a flexible sealant rather than grout and this would have stopped the grout falling out corner crack and may have allowed some movement which would have reduced the stresses in the rest of the wall.

 

[axel]

This is the explanation that I understand and what I thought the man from the insurance company was saying. On the bedroom side there are 3 long straight fine vertical lines exactly a metre apart which I assume to be boards of some kind. I don't know if this could be avoided or minimised by any other means in addition to Silicon at the corners. is the something to be expected in houses or is it quite a rare occurrence?

 

[SJPurdy]

This should not be expected - the walls should be prepared correctly and they should not move after tiling to such an extent that the tiles crack. Non of the boards that I am familiar with come in 1m widths so the spacing of the cracks is unexpected. It is difficult to help/comment further without more info on the structure of the wall which I suspect you will only really find out when the tiles are removed.

I have seen such cracks in the past on a large contract where the tiles were fitted (using highly flexible BAL Flex adhesive) to wood based sheets and the tiles cracked floor to ceiling, every 1.2m, at each joint in the wood (probably the reason BS now states not to tile on wood sheets unless a flex movement joint is incorporated over all sheet joints). similar cracks occur on incorrectly prepared wood floors again straight lines along each board joint.
The crack that is shown in a tile that has been cut into an L shape at the corner of a window is slightly more common, it's a higher stress location - years ago I tiled a bathroom in a house close to a railway line and the vibrations from the trains caused repeated failures.

 

[axel]

hello, I asked about what the partition walls are made of... Structure of wall which was tiled - original solid 6'x2' timber partition ..plasterboards have been fitted by wood screws on to....plasterboard sealed by PVA.. Tile adhesive used - mapei wall tile adhesive..ad flexible grout...


I measured the distances of the fine vertical lines on the bedroom wall and they are .. 98 cm, 102 cm, 99 cm and 100cm apart.