Customer needs good advice after failed balcony job.

[Artisan]

Hi folks,

Can you help? What procedure would you recommend a customer who has a tiled exterior balcony that failed after 3 years? It's 4 years now since the work was done.
He's written 2 letters & had no response from the tiler. I've not had to deal with this type of thing before & want to advise the best action.

Are there specific surveyors that could write a report? Anyone with the right credentials connected to the forum? The job is in Abergavenny.

A third of the tiles have blown, there's white residue on the grout & tile edges & water is dripping out from behind the soffit, milky white stalagtites an inch long hanging down in various places.


My take on it is he didn't butter the tiles, probably spot dabbed them:incazzato: & if I'm wrong.... anyway it would have been safer to have used Ditra mat.

If the bloke has done a runner & I get the job of replacing them I'll look into some kind of flashing for the exterior wall & try to source a drip edge extrusion for the run off into the gutter. Thats after using Ditra mat. Perhaps I almost sound like i know what I'm doing, but I really value any & all feedback & suggestions.

Thanks for reading
:vanish:

 

[Deleted member 9966]

The customer needs to get his solicitor involved if the original fixer is not responding to his calls/letters. That might be enough of a kick the fixer needs.

Your customer needs to know what materials were used to originally fix the tiles to his balcony - what adhesive, what grout, could the tiles be used in an exterior setting.. Also, what kind of guarantee did the fixer give on the work.

Your customer could refer this to the TTA and ask for an independent report to be done (around £800 for a TTA approved report) or alternatively you could seek to source a professional member from this forum unconnected to your customer/job to come and do the independent report instead (at a price no doubt but probably not as expensive as a TTA report).

I can't comment as to what has failed to cause the tiles to blow like that but no doubt a few of the professional members of the forum will be along in the next few hours to discuss it with you.

 

[jay]

as advised any chance of some pics and maybe a bit more info size of area substrate is it over a dwelling ect type of tile

 

[Artisan]

Yes a report from a professional member of this forum is something the customer would consider as we discussed that when we last met.

A little more background to this is the customer has himself laid a large area to the side of the house including a stairways with the same tiles previously to the balcony area being laid. After consideration, he chose to employ a professional to do the balcony area.

I will certainly suggest a solicitors letter as the next step, & try to find out more info about the tiles & adhesive & I'll be looking in later to see what others can add.

Thanks, this helps a lot already.

 

[Artisan]

I'm going back there later, I'll take some pics. Good one.

The area is 1.6 m by 10 m across the width of the house. The central section is the ceiling of a large double garage entrance & this is where leakage is visible the most. There is a gutter running along the length which sound. The leakage is coming from behind the pvc soffit & from a couple of points 6 inchs in, through the garage ceiling. Also signs from below the soffit running down the external walls.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

I think that the contruction details of the balcolny are going to be required for further input - wood/steel/concrete.
Is there an overhang above the balcolny and does any downpipes wash accross the surface.
What flashing has been used on the back wall.
Is it particularily exposed to freeze thaw conditions.
As you say - photos may help.

 

[mikethetile]

sounds like the tiles have been sitting in water , destroying the adhesive, balconies need good drainage theres no point tiling a flat roof unless you can thoruoghly seal against water ingression or have some way of running the water under the tiles ie ditra matting

legally your client needs to employ a solicitor

pm Dave and he will post for a suitable tiler to do a report for your client

 

[Pebbs]

Actually I dont agree with your comments here. You have not stated that the original tiler put a guarantee regarding defects. Bearing this in mind legally I dont believe your customer would have a leg to stand on in this case. Defects liability normally lasts for 12 months, and should a customer want this to roll forward there are normally additional charges which would relate to this. You can advise your customer to have a report undertaken ascertaining to the failure for the tiling, however I have to forewarn you that I truely believe this would be a thankless exercise due to the period that has now lapsed between the initial installation and the problem today. If no defects warranty was issued for longer than the 12 month period, then all the customers efforts and financial undertaking on obtaining a report could result to nothing.

Pebbs

 

[mikethetile]

I agree with you Pebbs

all defects should be reported in writing within 12 months or forget it

problem is , unless that is stated in the contract its not that simple and its down to how long you could reasonably expect a job like this to last if done properly and what caused early failure

that is why we reccomend the client employs a solicitor rather than us giving legal advice we are not qualified to give

 

[TheWrightTiler]

agree that any defects should be reported withing the terms of the gaurantee, typically one year, after this is extended warranty is given then additional payments must be made in full, i offer a years warranty and ill fix anything that is a result of my doing it wrong, if you as a punter break a tile and ring me wanting it fixed then i will charge accordingly guarantee or not, after a year its out of warranty so even going downa legal route your client has no hope of recompense from the original fixer
you can try but imho a waste of cash

 

[Deleted member 9966]

agree that any defects should be reported withing the terms of the gaurantee, typically one year, after this is extended warranty is given then additional payments must be made in full, i offer a years warranty and ill fix anything that is a result of my doing it wrong, if you as a punter break a tile and ring me wanting it fixed then i will charge accordingly guarantee or not, after a year its out of warranty so even going downa legal route your client has no hope of recompense from the original fixer
you can try but imho a waste of cash

unless it can be proven that the fixer used totally inadequate materials and did not make the substrate suitable for tiling in the first place?

 

[TheWrightTiler]

agree liz but after 4 years, cmon surely they noticed the problems before now, if its a balcony thats in use it should be reported right away as faults wuld be evident,

if theres a leak behind the soffits then as a tiler he woudnt have known this possibly, this may have caused the water ingression over a period of time, has new soffit board been installed, if so when, who did it and was it done right are questions id ask, so theres a possibility of a blame game here, tiler blaming client and client blaming tiler

as the fixer id have a look and if they fixed the leak id retile free to keep my rep etc but i wouldnt take all the blame on this one if it was me

only my thoughts liz please dont shout or hit me lol

andy

 

[Deleted member 9966]

it's good that we can see this from lots of different angles. hopefully this will help Artisan find the best way forward for his client

 

[Artisan]

This has brought some interesting issues to light, aside from finding good information for the client & finding the best way to approach the job if I end up replacing the tiles like for like. It's highlighted my need to get my customer contract in order. At present I could find myself in a similar situation as the previous tiler, without clear time limits to defect liability. Touch wood, I've not had a come back yet, but this has made me think it's time to get this point clearer on my contract. A 4 year extended warranty that the customer pays for seems a good idea. Is this commonly used throughout Tilers here on the forum?

I've tried to post some photos but it didn't work. My 1st time... Hopefully with some admin help I can do that soon. (I've informed an Admin).

I spoke with the client earlier, I'll send him a summary of recommendations from this thread & get on with working out the best way to approach the job. I can see his point he's tiled loads throughout his home over the last 35 years he's 83 with all his marbles, nice chap, and the last Tiling work he decided to get a professional to do & it fails after 3 years. Yeah I think he was slow off the mark to get back back to the Tiler, it's just a shame though.

The substrate is concrete, steels supporting the central overhang (you'll see in the photos). The position is exposed to the elements, no more than usual temperatures in the UK i.e. completely unpredictable :icon6:. There is no run off from drain pipes over the Tiles, so we can rule that out.
Flashing to the external wall will not be simple because of varied sized cast stones, lots of angle grinding.

It's been a long day, I'm going to pick this up tomorrow. Thanks for all your input, it's good here.

Ray