Dodgy tricks...

[charlie1]

Thought I'd start this interesting thread to discuss the dodgy tricks that have been sprung on you by unscrupulous contractors / builders (more specifically in my case bathroom company). These tricks have one aim... To reduce what money you are owed.

Here re what I have found, I negotiate a meter age rate for tiling but when it comes payment time, for example, the meter age has been calculated minus door / window / and anything else they think they can get away with. To reduce it beyond being worth while.

in comparison, decent companies give you the rate for the full room.

what dirty tricks can you think of?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Charlie - I've yet to tile a doorway and apart for the reveals nor the window! It's the norm to exclude these areas in any measurements so IMHO - no dirty tricks!

 

[John Benton]

How can they take the window out Charlie, the reveal generally covers the window plus you have the cuts to do into a window, they are basing it on flat walls.

What about drilling into porcelain? I have just done a bathroom and there were 43 holes to drill in tough porcelain, even if you average 5-6 minutes per hole that's at least 3 hours just drilling plus the cost of bits, who pays for all that.

I only do my own work and don't subby, everything is under my control then and quoted accordingly and paid for in full.

 

[charlie1]

Well I must admit, most companies I work for include the whole room as part of the measurement and pass that on to you as you know they have charged the customer anyway. So you would expect the window area to be removed even though the reveals more than cover the area? Also john, how would you charge a customer , the m2 or the m2 of tiles required (inc waste)

 

[charlie1]

How can they take the window out Charlie, the reveal generally covers the window plus you have the cuts to do into a window, they are basing it on flat walls.

What about drilling into porcelain? I have just done a bathroom and there were 43 holes to drill in tough porcelain, even if you average 5-6 minutes per hole that's at least 3 hours just drilling plus the cost of bits, who pays for all that.

I only do my own work and don't subby, everything is under my control then and quoted accordingly and paid for in full.

Yes, john, when you add up all those holes as you mention, you wonder if it's worth your while.

suppose the specific question I'm asking is... When you do work for a bathroom company, how do you expect your meter age to be calculated? ,minus doors and windows, just area tiled ( not in waste).

The he gym I'm working for knows every trick in the book, orders way more tiles than required, charges customers then takes them back for money.... Not a very trustworthy guy so I need to watch him at every turn.... Stinks

 

[John Benton]

I always charge for the meterage of tiles including waste as the tiles need to be cut to create the waste, that = time = chargeable. I do take the half the door out of the equation To allow for cuts, but ALWAYS leave the window(s) in.

The bathroom I did with 43 holes was on a day rate for the job but I would be happy to charge £5 per hole, and I've never had any one say, 'Oh I'll drill the holes'.

On more than one occasion I've let the customer have a go at drilling with masonry bits (cos they drill concrete and brick so they'll drill tiles, won't they?) And they see what it takes to drill them successfully and the cost of the diamond core bits.

 

[charlie1]

I always charge for the meterage of tiles including waste as the tiles need to be cut to create the waste, that = time = chargeable. I do take the half the door out of the equation To allow for cuts, but ALWAYS leave the window(s) in.

I think that's fair and reasonable. I don't charge for waste but I add a small charge for tiling window reveal (usually 2 hours). Also, any mosaic Work that needs to have prep done, again I charge an extra hour or 2 prep for that.

 

[AMtek]

Day rate for me, they tell me roughly what is involved, I give them a rough timescale but I get paid for the number of days the job takes. Negotiations take place if the job turns out to be a pig! haha

 

[Andy Allen]

I allways measure a room and add on 10% wastage....so a 20m2 room, would be charge at 22m2, when measuring I don't take out the window unless its a very big window but I don't include the door..

 

[Stef]

Company I work for used to try & pay me for the meterage of tiles fixed, dead meterage,
That was until I told them that it takes me longer to fix a cut tile than a full tile.
I measure full room add 10% & that's what I'm paid for.

 

[Brian the Tile]

if the room measures 20 mts you get paid for 20mts i dont get what the fuss is about ,are you expecting to get paid for doing something that isnt there?. As for charching for an extra 10% you woulndnt get through my front door

 

[Andy Allen]

brain......if a room measures dead on 20m2 and you get 20m2 of tiles then you wont have enough tiles ......imo you should get paid for what your fixing and handling ...22m2

 

[Brian the Tile]

sorry ,cant agree with you there ,if a job is 20mts it can not be 22,if you was doing the job on a day rate and did 8 hours would you charge for 10?,now you willsay ah thats different

 

[Andy Allen]

It all comes down to weather or not you should charge for the exact m2 or for the amount of tiles needed to complete the job. Imo you will need to handle and cut 22m2 to complete a 20m2 job so should charge for that amount

 

[Stef]

As soon as you lift a tile to cut it then its taking you longer to fix that tile so you charge for it.
I'm the same as you Andy,
Measure room at 20m2 + 10% wastage = 22m2, that's what gets invoiced...
Seemples.

 

[John Benton]

As soon as you lift a tile to cut it then its taking you longer to fix that tile so you charge for it.
I'm the same as you Andy,
Measure room at 20m2 + 10% wastage = 22m2, that's what gets invoiced...
Seemples.

Like I said previously, it's easy to tile flat walls, It's when you come to the cuts that's where the skills are, and they need paying for.

We've seen all too many times on here what bad cuts look like and they make or break a job. If you choose not to charge in that manner then you are missing an opportunity that's staring you in the face.

 

[Saltire69]

Just give price for doing the job and that's it. Price doesn't change. Don't really do a metre rate now.

 

[Brian the Tile]

and do you all tell your customers that you will be charging for the exta meterage that you are not fixing?

 

[John Benton]

and do you all tell your customers that you will be charging for the exta meterage that you are not fixing?

i just ask the tile suppliers to deliver them pre-cut to the exact sizes required, saves me taking the cutter to the job so I only need addy and spacers. Easy.

 

[Stef]

and do you all tell your customers that you will be charging for the exta meterage that you are not fixing?

It is not extra meterage that you are not fixing.
How many tiles would you order for a 20m2 bathroom?

 

[afright]

The company I worked for in the 70s would send out the estimator at the finish and he would measure all the cuts even around sockets and the holes and this would all be charged for.

 

[Brian the Tile]

if i measured a bathroom at twenty mts i would tell the customer to get twenty mts ,if i price for twenty mts thats what i want paying for ,regardless of how many cuts i have to do,if any tiles are damaged or simlar that is different,or am i missing something here,i know carpet shops charge for the extra bits but thats on a roll i just dont get it at all why would you want paying for 22 mts,may be im being a bit thick here eh

 

[Stef]

Brian, if you go & measure up a bathroom & you measure that bathroom at 20m2 then you must add on 10% ie 2m2 to cover your cuts.
If you measure the bathroom at 18m2 then you would get 20m2, should be 1.8m2, if we are getting picky.

 

[John Benton]

if i measured a bathroom at twenty mts i would tell the customer to get twenty mts ,if i price for twenty mts thats what i want paying for ,regardless of how many cuts i have to do,if any tiles are damaged or simlar that is different,or am i missing something here,i know carpet shops charge for the extra bits but thats on a roll i just dont get it at all why would you want paying for 22 mts,may be im being a bit thick here eh

Question then for you Brian

What do you do with all the waste cuts of your tiles?

 

[Brian the Tile]

John i dont want to get bitchy here ,but i put em wherever the customer wants me to put them,now as we all know here tiles are tiles ,where as you dont need to buy a full 3mts of worktop to get one and a half mts out of it as you will know, would you pay for something that you are not getting ,i for one won,t ,so for my next job i,ve got to tell my customer that the job is twenty mts but im going to charge them for 22mts ,ok ill try it