Failed Topps Former Tray

[Daveyboy]

I've been asked to sort out a failed wetroom area where the grout keeps cracking. The tiler (not sure if he is as the tiling is appalling) cannot explain why it keeps cracking but give him his due he has tried and has paid out of his own pocket to try and put it right.

I've had a look at it and found two issues. The first is that there is a lot of flex in the tray when you stand on it, which will no doubt be the cause of the cracking (no fitting instructions on site). The second is the underfloor heating, which if it is over 100 watts, should not be fitted on a former tray (the client does not know if it is or not and no instructions to hand).

I've fitted a lot of former trays but never a Topps one. Does anyone know if they should have supports underneath them or can they be laid straight onto the joists? If straight onto the joists then the problem may be the joists themselves.

Also, do they have a watt restriction for underfloor heating? If they don't, then I won't have to rip up the whole floor, just the wet area..

 

[jay]

hi havent used that brand but if its to be tiled you are better off suporting to the max as tiles dont like movement the floor heating i dont know but the picture scares me

 

[Daveyboy]

hi havent used that brand but if its to be tiled you are better off suporting to the max as tiles dont like movement the floor heating i dont know but the picture scares me

Cheers Jay, I got that feeling when I looked at the job... the picture looks good compared to real life!

I've checked the Topps website/instruction but it doesn't say how the substrate needs to be prepared (unlike Impey tray instructions), although it does say it has to be stable - clearly this one isn't..

The Topps website/instructions do not mention the underfloor heating limitations of the former so will have to investigate further on that one...

 

[jay]

yeah i would defo and get it checked by a sparky for peace of mind thanks :8:

 

[wetdec]

Hi Davey

Check out the joists and lay a board under the former m8 this will stop any flex when its screwed in.

The ufh issue......... we simply dont recomend going over the tray, not because its unsafe but because if you end up in a situation such as this you lose the heating for the whole floor................





..

 

[Saltire69]

My concern as well is the lack of addy on the ufh/former. Tiles seem to have come up pretty easy with addy.

 

[cornish_crofter]

I could be wrong but when I looked at topps wetroom trays last year I'm pretty sure they were pushing the Impey tray.

This could be an impey tray, and hence Impey installation method would apply, would it not?

 

[doug boardley]

My concern as well is the lack of addy on the ufh/former. Tiles seem to have come up pretty easy with addy.

I thought the same, been re-reading the thread to see if I missed something!

 

[Daveyboy]

I could be wrong but when I looked at topps wetroom trays last year I'm pretty sure they were pushing the Impey tray.

This could be an impey tray, and hence Impey installation method would apply, would it not?

The tray certainly has the same waste trap that Impey trays use, but is covered with a tanking membrane/UFH/etc so can't be sure, but it is possible. The client has confirmed he wants me to do the repair works, so I will know when I rip it out...I'll keep you all posted as things progress

 

[wetdec]

It is an Impey.........

..

 

[Daveyboy]

It is an Impey.........

..

Cheers Tony, as knowledgeable as ever

The tanking system is not the one normally supplied with Impey trays (which cannot have UFH over 100 watts laid on top of it because of the materials used in it)... Can UFH over 100 watts be laid on top of the tanking system supplied by Topps?

 

[trevortine]

Just to add, never fix ufh with gaffa tape like in the pic, addy should stick to substrate and its clear to see its no chance with the amount of tape in this one.

 

[wetdec]

Impey supply a membrane to outlets that rebadge their formers I believe but I have never seen it. Give them a ring m8.

 

[surflaur]

I've used a couple of Topps wetroom formers and they are Impey, but the Topps i use only supply the Tilelux membranes which should be stuck down with flexy adhesive and a mosaic trowel.

The joists should be noggined and then supports put on the joists 9mm below, then 9mm ply boards on top. You can then screw the tray on top.

 

[Daveyboy]

I'm booked in to dismantle it all next Friday so will keep you posted on the flexing problem(s)... will definately sort out the UFH gaffa tape situation so that adhesive can stick to former.

the client has been quizzing the various trades involved in all this...someone did work on the joists/supports, someone fitted the tray and the tiler laid the UFH and tiles... apparently the tray was then taken up because of cracking grout and then refitted by the tiler and re-tiled but cracked again...they're all convinced it's not their work causing the cracking....but the client did find about 20 spare screws after the board went back down, re-tiled, etc...sure hope they didn't forget to screw it down!!