Failed Topps Former Tray

[Daveyboy]

I've been asked to sort out a failed wetroom area where the grout keeps cracking. The tiler (not sure if he is as the tiling is appalling) cannot explain why it keeps cracking but give him his due he has tried and has paid out of his own pocket to try and put it right.

I've had a look at it and found two issues. The first is that there is a lot of flex in the tray when you stand on it, which will no doubt be the cause of the cracking (no fitting instructions on site). The second is the underfloor heating, which if it is over 100 watts, should not be fitted on a former tray (the client does not know if it is or not and no instructions to hand).

I've fitted a lot of former trays but never a Topps one. Does anyone know if they should have supports underneath them or can they be laid straight onto the joists? If straight onto the joists then the problem may be the joists themselves.

Also, do they have a watt restriction for underfloor heating? If they don't, then I won't have to rip up the whole floor, just the wet area..

 

[Daveyboy]

It is an Impey.........

..

Cheers Tony, as knowledgeable as ever

The tanking system is not the one normally supplied with Impey trays (which cannot have UFH over 100 watts laid on top of it because of the materials used in it)... Can UFH over 100 watts be laid on top of the tanking system supplied by Topps?

 

[trevortine]

Just to add, never fix ufh with gaffa tape like in the pic, addy should stick to substrate and its clear to see its no chance with the amount of tape in this one.

 

[wetdec]

Impey supply a membrane to outlets that rebadge their formers I believe but I have never seen it. Give them a ring m8.

 

[surflaur]

I've used a couple of Topps wetroom formers and they are Impey, but the Topps i use only supply the Tilelux membranes which should be stuck down with flexy adhesive and a mosaic trowel.

The joists should be noggined and then supports put on the joists 9mm below, then 9mm ply boards on top. You can then screw the tray on top.

 

[Daveyboy]

I'm booked in to dismantle it all next Friday so will keep you posted on the flexing problem(s)... will definately sort out the UFH gaffa tape situation so that adhesive can stick to former.

the client has been quizzing the various trades involved in all this...someone did work on the joists/supports, someone fitted the tray and the tiler laid the UFH and tiles... apparently the tray was then taken up because of cracking grout and then refitted by the tiler and re-tiled but cracked again...they're all convinced it's not their work causing the cracking....but the client did find about 20 spare screws after the board went back down, re-tiled, etc...sure hope they didn't forget to screw it down!!

 

[Daveyboy]

As promised, here's the update on the failed topps former tray. The problem is a lot worse than first thought but isn't that always the case....

The floor tiles weren't bonding with the tray because of too much duck tape holding down the underfloor heating.
The wrong size/length screws had been used to hold down the tray and some had snapped.
The sub-base was very sub-standard and 12mm instead of 18mm ply had been used, with very few screws holding it down. The joist/plywood supports were badly fitted and could be moved by hand.
The walls had not been correctly prepared and as a result the tanking kit was peeling off.
Tubbed adhesive had been used for the wall tiles and had not yet set (two months on) - the only thing holding up the tiles was the grout.
The shower wall had no support other than the glass wall so when we removed that to get the tray out, the shower wall started moving around.
When we took the tray out, the rest of the floor starting bouncing which suggests the backer board they've used is not correctly fitted.

:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:

The only good news is that despite everything, the underfloor heating still works.

It's effectively a complete rip out and re-install so I now have to wait until the client decides how to proceed.

 

[stevee]

hiya dave ,in pic 3 it dont look like the homelux has been pushed into the addy hard enough does it , .....not that im an expert,steve

 

[Daveyboy]

hiya dave ,in pic 3 it dont look like the homelux has been pushed into the addy hard enough does it , .....not that im an expert,steve

What's happened there Steve is that the addy has not bonded to the wall and as I pulled it out to take a photo, all the addy fell off the tanking.

 

[cornish_crofter]

You say he'd used tubbed addy for the tiles - how big were the tiles?

 

[Daveyboy]

You say he'd used tubbed addy for the tiles - how big were the tiles?

Hi Cornish, they are 600x300 polished natural stone tiles on the walls..