Farmers and Milk

[Dan]

Anybody had the milk challenge done locally? Where the farmers buy all the milk so there's nothing for the locals?

 

[Old Mod]

Qué?

 

[Dan]

It's all in the news around our way. Not seen it in a shop though.

Farmers moaning about not making much profit on milk because the big supermarkets are selling milk as a loss leader and "devaluing the work farmers do".

They say only super farms make profit.

Personally I think they need to move with the times. They're not the first industry to need to modernise and they won't be the last.

 

[WetSaw]

I couldn't disagree with that post more Dan. Supermarkets can sell goods at whatever price they want, if they want to use milk as a loss leader that's fine but farmers need to make a profit. Animal welfare is also a consideration for me and generally the UK has higher standards and therefore increased costs. I'm also sure that the vast majority of people don't even think about the calves that die for their pint of milk.
The farmers aren't asking for £1 a litre more, a few pence would make a difference and I think most people would be happy to pay that.

 

[Old Mod]

Okaaaaay! haha

 

[Dan]

I don't think we need to pay more.

The supermarkets might need to. But if it's a loss leader. They will be making money on every sale.

Farmers make a lot of money. Don't be fooled by the news. They're the only industry that would have owned their lanes for centuries.

 

[Ajax123]

the issue is not the supermarkets or the farmers but the fact that milk is traded on the global commodities markets which means that the farmer has little say over the price in the market as it is affected by places like china and russia who produce far more and can do it much cheaper. And regardless of peoples willingness to pay a little more in the supermarket, that cash would not go to the farmer. I am sceptical anyway that the vast majority of folks would want to pay more anyway especially considering that there are still an awful lot of people living in relative poverty who will buy the cheapest they can. If that comes from China or the Ukraine then so be it, i don't think that is a real consideration for the majority of shoppers.

A solution would be for the farmers to sell directly to the end user. they would probably still be able to undercut the supermarkets and still make more than they do now.That way it becomes a much simpler transaction with a cost/profit calculation rather than a global price set in the stock market. Problem is the infrastructure to do so is not really there.

Disbanding the milk marketing board was a big mistake

 

[Andy Allen]

Take it from me there is no such thing as a poor farmer...
There as tight as a ducks arse and hate spending money on anything.......still using outdated farming methods compared to other country's.......bit like trying to Tile using a pencil scribe or even worse a rubi cutter..

 

[Dan]

They used to get paid to tip milk away because of the subsidy thing they had with the EU

 

[Ajax123]

Take it from me there is no such thing as a poor farmer...
There as tight as a ducks arse and hate spending money on anything.......still using outdated farming methods compared to other country's.......bit like trying to Tile using a pencil scribe or even worse a rubi cutter..

That is so incredibly unfair to say there are no poor farmers. I know quite a lot of farmers and just like many businessmen some of them suffer financially. Some are good at business and some are not. some are modern some are not. I agree that many farmers are tight but so are many builders, plasterers, tilers, plumbers and so on. None of us like spending money unnecessarily. How do you update technology if the money is not available to invest. Many farmers have updated and use modern equipment and techniques but many have not. Just as many tilers don't use the most modern methods where many do. and lets face it Modern is not always best when it comes to animal welfare.I think many of our livestock farmers in the UK do a great job of caring for their animals. If you go to Holland and Germany you rarely see cows, pigs or sheep in the fields. That is not because they are not about, it is because they are shut up for their entire lives in sheds because it is more efficient than letting the animals have some sort of life.

Farmers going bankrupt, and many are, is not a sign that farmers are rich, its not a sign that they are tight, its a sign that as businessmen they are struggling. Bear in mind also that many farmers are not limited companies so going bust is personal loss. There are often no personal millions stashed away so they can go bust today and start again tomorrow.

The issue here is that dairy farmers are not in control of their own destiny when it comes to price. In my simple brain I always thought that as a business you offer a product or a service and you set the price of that product or service based on a number of factors such as how much it costs you, how much profit you need to make, how much competition there is etc. WIth Milk, and to a very large extent with corn the prices are set by commodities traders many of whom have no contact with the manufacturer's whatsoever. If UK farmers over produce then they have to chuck it down the drain cos china over produces they sell it to the world markets for export and lots of it ends up in the UK driving the market price down for farmers. In the old days the milk marketing board regulated quotas and prices but that is all gone.

 

[Andy Allen]

Most farmers are sat on millions in land ...out buildings equipment ect.....They could easily borrow money to update there farms.
I know a farmer that did just that...invested money in a new robot milking system where the cows basically milk themselves. ..cut his outgoings in half..
My wife's parents own a farm not milking but they keep cows ,sheep, pigs....It was valued last year at 1.2 million and he walks round looking like a homeless tramp moaning how skint he is lol

 

[WetSaw]

Take it from me there is no such thing as a poor tiler ...
There as tight as a ducks arse and hate spending money on anything.......still using outdated tiling methods compared to other country's........

Corrected for you

 

[Ajax123]

Oh don't get me wrong Andy, I know there are many farmers who could easily do that but there are many that cannot. different farms in different areas yield different results. Some of the welsh hill farmers don't own the land where their animals graze as it is common land or held in trust.. Many farmers don't own the land they farm but rent it from landlords. Where I live most of the land is owned by the local stately home and the farmers rent it from the estate.Banks wont lend against an asset that you don't own so if your business is not making money the banks would not even look at you. It is not reasonable to tar all with the same brush. thats like saying all tilers are crap cos some use dot and dab to fix tiles.

As for looking scruffy even though you are rich what the heck does what you wear or look like have to do with anything. you work on the land or in a milking shed up to your ankles in cow pooh, you're hardly going to be wearing your best prada suit or gucci shoes are you. As for moaning about being skint, that is most assuredly not reserved for farmers.

There is most definitely such a thing as a poor farmer.

 

[Ajax123]

I appear to have got on my high horse.... I shall get down now and stop "ranting"

 

[Dan]

Haha it's alright to have a rant.

I think they need to move with the times personally and if some go bump for not doing so, customers paying 3p more per ltr isn't going to stop them going bump in the future.

If we import milk cheaper, let's import it!

Why on earth should we pay more just because they can't compete? No other industry would get supported like that. We've lost pottery, automotives, and Christ knows how many other industries.

If they can't keep up, they're going to go bump. That's just business.

 

[Andy Allen]

Are part of the farmers union Alan lol

 

[Andy Allen]

Quite a few farms round our way have diverseafid into other things
Some rent there outbuildings.....One even uses his land to store people's caravans....
"Where there's muck there's money".

 

[WetSaw]

So you'd be happy that the UK has no farming and relies totally on imports?

 

[Dan]

I'd prefer UK. And to support them. But if they're not moving with the times I wouldn't think paying more is going to save them long term.

 

[WetSaw]

If they're not making a profit then they're not going to have the capital to invest. I don't think "super farms" are viable in the UK because there isn't the space and to me it just seems wrong to keep a cow in a barn its entire life but that's another story.

 

[Dan]

They need to select their customers better or something perhaps.

Not sell to the supermarkets perhaps.

 

[widler]

What gets me is how is it 'cheaper' to import products from countries as far away as china to britain which are made here???? I know some workers get paid peanuts in other countries but the cost of importing is expencive in itself, so how is it cheaper?

 

[WetSaw]

I know a dairy farmer , in fact he was in those Arla ads that have been on telly lately, and he drastically reduced the size of his herd and joined Arla ,a Co-op, and seems to be doing better.

 

[Dan]

What gets me is how is it 'cheaper' to import products from countries as far away as china to britain which are made here???? I know some workers get paid peanuts in other countries but the cost of importing is expencive in itself, so how is it cheaper?

It's manufactured in vast quantities in super farms where the cows don't move much and just eat and produce milk in a machine. And then their feed costs can be cheaper as that's farmed much more modernly. And then as Alan said, because it's a commodity it's involved in how strong countries currencies are and what the going rate for the wheat and milk is for the days trading and whatnot.

If you want to support a farmer, support the small ones who don't sell to the super markets.

 

[widler]

One of my best mates family are milkers , mum,dad, 3 sons now grandkids work there ,always seem to have plenty of cash, tight as ducks arses though, and i mean tight