First Ever Quote & it's Mosaics!!

[DJT75]

Hi, I've just been around to see some old chap who wants his new utility room tiled. It will be my first paying job if I get it so I want to get it quoted correctly.

The room is perfect for a first real job, newly skimmed perfect flat walls (advised him British Standards are 4 weeks before tiling), no furnitue, no skirting, no nothing & just normal 6x6 ceramics around 3 x 2m walls at a height up to just 1.2m.

However, he's now hit me with the news he wants a mosaic border one tile down from the top row & & an entire shower cubicle done in one of the corners.

So I know what needs doing without the shower, that bit is easy to price, but I'm having trouble knowing what to do about the mosaics. Although I've completed my 4 week course, we never ventured into mosaics, so I haven't a clue:

How easy they are to hang?
How do you hang them - surely the adhesive squeezes through all those gaps?
How long they take to hang?
How much I need to charge to hang? (compared to standard ceramics)
How much more work is involved cleaning & grouting?

Is a standard square shower tray 900mx900m? this guy hasn't bought one yet

If I'm tiling assuming a 900m tray - how high would you tile to accommodate a standard shower? (once the tray is in place - I would be tiling before it's fitted), or would you tile to the ceiling? Not sure what would look better when all the other walls at only being tiled up to 1.2m.

I imagine the Mosaics will be thinner than the ceramics, how does this affect how they join each other at the shower's edge? I haven't a clue what sort of screen/curtain he's having.

I imagine the border won't be straight forward due to the thickness too?


Sorry for all the questions but I came away from there as happy as larry - it appeared to be a perfect first job, now I'm thinking it could be a nightmare first job!!

Is there any other questions I need to be asking the guy that might help me, I haven't seen the tiles & am only assuming the mosaics are coming on square sheets.

Any advise anyone can give on any of the above would be greatly appreciated. I'm away on hols tomorrow night so need to get a quote in tomorrow if I really want this job (which I'm now not so sure about).

thanks

 

[White Room]

The tray needs to be in before you tile, he has'nt got the tiles yet so you won't know how thick the mosaic will be or what they will be glass, natural stone etc.
If the tiles are only 1.2 off the floor then tiles should fixed to the shower frame otherwise your'll have a gap behind the frame if it's fixed to the tiles.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

four days tiling no comment !

 

[david campbell]

mosaics are very tricky,if the depths are different from the tiles work out how you are going to pack them out,i prefer using rapid set,tile the whole room upto mosaic height and do them last thing at night,or you can wedge them up with cut tile and fit at the end,when using mosaics use your fingers as lttle as possible and pat gently into place with a grout float,also glass mosaics must be done with mosaic-fix as i've seen them debond with a normal flexi!

above all take your time,take care and good luck

 

[DJT75]

ps. Not sure if I was clear but the entire shower cubicle (2 walls) will be in mosaics, hence my slight panic.

Not sure I understand your post gooner59?

Thanks for your comments whitebeam - he did say the mosaics were glass coming to think of it. Did think that about the shower tray but then he was told to get everything tiled first by his plumber so I figured they knew what they were talking about, but obviously not.

 

[david campbell]

the only thing you need in is the shower tray to start tiling,and make sure it's siliconed in prior to starting,get yourself a glass cutting blade for you wet saw!

 

[DJT75]

mosaics are very tricky,if the depths are different from the tiles work out how you are going to pack them out,i prefer using rapid set,tile the whole room upto mosaic height and do them last thing at night,or you can wedge them up with cut tile and fit at the end,when using mosaics use your fingers as lttle as possible and pat gently into place with a grout float,also glass mosaics must be done with mosaic-fix as i've seen them debond with a normal flexi!

above all take your time,take care and good luck

Being honest, would you do this as your first job without some mosaic experience gained elsewhere?

I'm confident to do all the other tiling, either leaving a gap for the border or putting the final row on top of the border afterwards (probably easier than leaving a gap). But the mosaic cubicle does worry me in how it will fit in with everything else.

 

[david campbell]

Being honest, would you do this as your first job without some mosaic experience gained elsewhere?

I'm confident to do all the other tiling, either leaving a gap for the border or putting the final row on top of the border afterwards (probably easier than leaving a gap). But the mosaic cubicle does worry me in how it will fit in with everything else.

probably not the best job to start with but could you talk the customer into breaking up the shower area with a listello,thus making your job a million times easier without worrying about matching up depths

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

mosaics are very tricky,if the depths are different from the tiles work out how you are going to pack them out,i prefer using rapid set,tile the whole room upto mosaic height and do them last thing at night,or you can wedge them up with cut tile and fit at the end,when using mosaics use your fingers as lttle as possible and pat gently into place with a grout float,also glass mosaics must be done with mosaic-fix as i've seen them debond with a normal flexi!

above all take your time,take care and good luck

we use ardex x77 all the time with glass pool mosaics no probs ,but we beat them down with heavy mosaic beaters from italy not grout floats

 

[david campbell]

we use ardex x77 all the time with glass pool mosaics no probs ,but we beat them down with heavy mosaic beaters from italy not grout floats

have seen them lift before with someone using bal flexible addy,the job looked like honeycombe on the shower floor with all the grout intact and the mosaics all lifting

 

[DJT75]

probably not the best job to start with but could you talk the customer into breaking up the shower area with a listello,thus making your job a million times easier without worrying about matching up depths

Quick Google of "Listello" :smilewinkgrin:

Yeah, I imagine something like that would completely eradicate that problem - do they sell slightly angled ones to accommodate differing depths?

The border is the other problem, I imagine I'm going to have to pad out the back of these glass mosaics all the way around the room if they are that much thinner.

 

[DJT75]

ps. If the mosaics are on large square sheets, I assume you have to separate them & cut them individually where required?

 

[jamie B]

Hi, I've just been around to see some old chap who wants his new utility room tiled. It will be my first paying job if I get it so I want to get it quoted correctly.

The room is perfect for a first real job, newly skimmed perfect flat walls (advised him British Standards are 4 weeks before tiling), no furnitue, no skirting, no nothing & just normal 6x6 ceramics around 3 x 2m walls at a height up to just 1.2m.

However, he's now hit me with the news he wants a mosaic border one tile down from the top row & & an entire shower cubicle done in one of the corners.

So I know what needs doing without the shower, that bit is easy to price, but I'm having trouble knowing what to do about the mosaics. Although I've completed my 4 week course, we never ventured into mosaics, so I haven't a clue:

How easy they are to hang?
How do you hang them - surely the adhesive squeezes through all those gaps?
How long they take to hang?
How much I need to charge to hang? (compared to standard ceramics)
How much more work is involved cleaning & grouting?

Is a standard square shower tray 900mx900m? this guy hasn't bought one yet

If I'm tiling assuming a 900m tray - how high would you tile to accommodate a standard shower? (once the tray is in place - I would be tiling before it's fitted), or would you tile to the ceiling? Not sure what would look better when all the other walls at only being tiled up to 1.2m.

I imagine the Mosaics will be thinner than the ceramics, how does this affect how they join each other at the shower's edge? I haven't a clue what sort of screen/curtain he's having.

I imagine the border won't be straight forward due to the thickness too?


Sorry for all the questions but I came away from there as happy as larry - it appeared to be a perfect first job, now I'm thinking it could be a nightmare first job!!

Is there any other questions I need to be asking the guy that might help me, I haven't seen the tiles & am only assuming the mosaics are coming on square sheets.

Any advise anyone can give on any of the above would be greatly appreciated. I'm away on hols tomorrow night so need to get a quote in tomorrow if I really want this job (which I'm now not so sure about).

thanks

Right, first things first..if I'm understanding you correctly..the walls are half height with the mosaic border one course down from the top?
and he's having the entire shower cubicle in mosaic?
That being correct then mark a plumb line up from each outside edge of the shower tray. The border (being one course down from the top of the half height tiling) is going to be your setting out mark for the shower cubicle..this may be either good or bad news depending on how it works down to the tray/up to the ceiling.The tiling will be full height to the ceiling in the cubicle!!! (or he'll have some very soggy plaster!) As a rule it's always nicer to see a whole tile out of the tray and as big a cut as possible to the ceiling. You want to avoid unsightly small cuts to either if possible. there is every likelyhood that the mosaic will either be thinner OR thicker than the other tile..unfortunately mosaic gives you little mercy with 'packing' out so you are dictated to more by the thickness of them..make sure you point this out to your customer if there's a huge difference!..if he's having a shower screen this will hide the differencial as it will sit against the front of your plumb lines leaving the half height tiling finishing at it's face.
Ok...fixing mosaic...you are right in as much as you can get in a real mess with the adhesive if you start buggering about to much with them...so the key is TAKE YOUR TIME and get it spot on...even if you only fix a course (1 sheet) at a time..keep checking your levels and make sure you step back to check your sheets are looking right and true. A good tip is to bed into adhesive by 'patting' them in firmly with an old squeegee (again watch you don't over do the addy or you'll be spending an age washing off!) if you find a course is out of line..or to avoid small cuts you can cut the sheet with a stanley once on the wall to 'pull' individual courses about a bit (they are rarely square on the sheet..so you may have to do this anyway) try to work as clean as possible..but make sure they are bedded properly!!! I sometimes use string to space on mosaics which can give you a little help ..you want it to look like one fluid panel NOT lots of 30 x 30 sheets.
You'll find it's time well spent being really thorough with washing off..likewise with grouting...check and re-check your joints..it's in the shower and will be constantly wet!!..don't miss anything!!
You'll find they will take longer to fix and longer to grout as you're just starting out...but remember don't do it quickly..do it properly!!!..speed comes with practice!!
By the sounds of it you're worrying yourself sick about it (and I must admit I think you should have been shown a bit about this on your course) but you must get in the habit of asking all the questions before you're due to start a job so you know what you're up against before you price/commit!
Just remember, take your time and you'll be fine...we all started out at one time. best of luck..if you need any more info this is the right place to ask!
cheers!

 

[DJT75]

Thanks Jamie, helped with quite a few questions there

Right, first things first..if I'm understanding you correctly..the walls are half height with the mosaic border one course down from the top?
and he's having the entire shower cubicle in mosaic?

Walls half height in standard 6x6 ceramics with what I assume is a thin strip off the mosaic course/sheet as a border. Shower cubicle is indeed totally mosaic

I think I'm only worried because I'm out of the country tomorrow for a few days & feel I need to quote before I go. You're right about the course not covering it, they do however do a separate mosaic course but it's more leaned towards BISAZZA when I really just need a day on basic mosaics.

 

[jamie B]

you're welcome mate..unfortunatley in the time it took to write that essay you probably got most of it from the others!
I don't know much about tiling courses nowadays as I did an apprenticeship with a company years ago and got my papers that way. I had a couple of blokes come with me fresh from courses and they do seem to miss out some vital aspects, but prehaps this differs from course to course?
Anyway enjoy your holiday and good luck!