fixing with sand and cement

[doug boardley]

I'd recommend Gooner 59 is the man for this:8:

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

Hi all,

I'm interested in using the above method. I have around 150m2 of tiling to do around my pool but it has to be a DIY job because funds are short. There is already a 5-10cm concrete deck that was done a few years back. Due to the different levels between the pool and decking area I have a need to raise it about 5-8cm. Thus the idea is to use a semi dry sand/cement screed. The idea is to fixate the tile onto the screed at the same time with a cement/water slurry. Would you still recommend this method? Anything I should be aware of before doing this?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Regards

crack on mate its still a good method, and it will work out a lot cheaper for materials, work clean,and leave a week IMO to set proper before grouting if you can

 

[DHTiling]

Hi all,

I'm interested in using the above method. I have around 150m2 of tiling to do around my pool but it has to be a DIY job because funds are short. There is already a 5-10cm concrete deck that was done a few years back. Due to the different levels between the pool and decking area I have a need to raise it about 5-8cm. Thus the idea is to use a semi dry sand/cement screed. The idea is to fixate the tile onto the screed at the same time with a cement/water slurry. Would you still recommend this method? Anything I should be aware of before doing this?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Regards

What tiles are you using..?

 

[Aston]

only advice i can think of is maybe get it delivered with a retarder in it to give you plenty of work time as you go

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

What tiles are you using..?

As Dave says, not all tiles are suitable for sand and cement fixing. Ed has made a good point, retarder in screed if you are using readymix. Pure portland slurry to bond, this is not a method I would recommend for a novice. If you know what you are doing, it still is a cracking method. PS make sure the semi-dry is well compacted.

 

[exipnos]

Hi again,

I have not sourced the tile yet. Which tile will be problematic with this method? I'll probably use 1cm ceramic tile for extrior use. I'm trying to source travertine 1.2cm but most probably won't fall within my budget (max 20E per m2).

In case of ceramic tile I assume I can use regular gray portland cement slurry. Please advice if not. I'm not a novice to tiling but I've used special tile adhesive in all my other projects. Should the cement slurry consistency be similar to the tile adhesive consistency? Will it be applied at the same thickness as tile adhesive?

In case of travertine I was thinking of using white cement slurry but gray cement in the screed. Will that work?

Regarding the screed I was planning on mixing this onsite as I go along using a regular concrete mixer. 4 sand to 1 cement ratio. How well shall I compact the screed?

The method I was going to use is the following. Using plastic profiles prepare it to the finished height and anges for the drainage. The plastic profiles will be left to act as the control joints for the screed. The control joints will be aligned with the grout lines. I will fill the area between two profiles and make it level with the plastic joints. I do maybe 50 cm screed and then tile this with 45cm tile. Then I go backwords and do additional 50 cm screed and tile the second row. When one section is fully tiled then I continue with the second starting with screed and working backwards again.

I was planning on cleaning the concrete with just water before I start applying the screed. Do I need any special product to ensure that the screed it bonded to the contrete?

Anything else I'm missing?

Thanks for you help!

 

[White Room]

I would slurry the concrete as you go with the screed with cement and sbr mixed

 

[exipnos]

Hello Gentlemen,

I'm re-opening this post since I need more detailed advice.

I've sourced travertine for this job. 40cm*40 cm and 12mm thickness in a beige color.

Here is the current plan. Let me remind you that its exterior tiling around a pool onto a concrete deck done a few years back. Please advice if I'm doing anything wrong.

1. The idea is to use 4-1 sand/cement screed. The cement is regular gray portland.
2. The screed is going to be mixed on site as I go along in a regular concrete mixer. I know paddle type is better but I don't have that available.
3. I'll be starting with a bit wetted sand, then add cement and then complete with more sand and water. I'll be going easy on the water just enough to bond the materials together.
4. I will have wetted my concrete slab before with water. I will also apply a cement slurry on the conrete just before putting on the screed.
5. I will compact the screed well. When finalizing 50 cm of screed, I will apply a cement slurry of white cement onto the screed and back of travertine tile.
6. I will then put down the tile onto the screed with 2mm of space between each tile. I will push it into the slurry to ensure good bond.
7. I will make sure the tile is clean before continuing onto the next 50 cm of screed and tiling.
7. I will continue working backwards in the same fashion until one section is done. I will then start another section to the left of the last one using the same procedure. The screeding/tiling will take several days.
8. When all the tiling is done I will let it dry for over a week before grouting.
9. I will clean surface one more time throughly, let it dry completely before sealing surface one time.
10. I will then grout the tiling. Let dry and then clean up well several times. 11. I will then seal a second time.

Any comment on the above?

My concerns are the following.

Will the above method work well for travertine tiles?
I will use white cement for the slurry but gray cement in the screed. Will this combination be enough to eliminate effervescence?
How thick should the cement slurry be?
Should travertine tiles really be sealed around a pool?

Your advice is highly appreciated so that I don't mess up and have to face my wife

Regards

 

[Spud]

seal the tiles before you do any fixing ,front and back, if its outside dont bond directly to the concrete slab as you will get future problems of cracking due to freeze and thaw, i would put a membrane down and wire mesh through the screed, on outside pool surrounds the fall must be away from the pool so the run off water doesnt get into the pool ,when bedding you must get good compaction on the bed you will need to beat the tiles in with a rubber mallet ,nothing can guarantee that you wont get effloresence, using white cement as the bonding coat is a good idea if you are using lighter coloured grouts, if you are using grey grout then use grey cement as your bonding coat, a handful of adhesive with the cement slurry slows it down nicely and gives it a little workabilty
good luck with it
my advice would be get a pro in but if you are confident, good luck to you

 

[White Room]

Glad you turned up Gary to answer that one:yes:

 

[DHTiling]

The less water you use when washing off then the less chance of salt migration(Efflorescence ).

Even if you do get it, it is not the end of the end of the world outside...

I agree with gary but i would also consider SBR in the screed mix to add some strength and water permeability.

 

[exipnos]

Thank you guys..

The fall is away from the pool. I will take the suggestion and use wire mesh in the screed. I'm a bit confused if I should bond the screed to the concrete slab or not. Some say yes some say no?

SBR is an acronym I've seen around here but have not yet figured out what it stands for. Please help me out on what it is?

Sealing tiles both side? To reduce efflorescence or why?

Handful of adhesive in the cement slurry sounds like a good idea. I assume I have to use a white cement based adhesive.

 

[DHTiling]

SBR is a synthetic primer and bonding agent...it can increase flexibility and reduce water permeability ...cracking product..

 

[White Room]

25 Ltrs at £60 it is

 

[exipnos]

Does Mapei have an SBR primer? If so by what name?