Floor fail...but why? - BCT "floor" tiles that are rubbish

[Bathfix Bob]

A few weeks ago I posted a thread on the main forum about British ceramic tiles cracking on all Hardiebacker joins.

As it stands this hasn't been sorted yet as the rep was hard to get hold of and eventually said i need to go back to supplier.

I know they are going to say its my fault and I have to put right at my expense which i will do but looking at the pictures some of the cracks you could get a sheet of paper in there.

The house is a solid 1980's build, wooden floor boards in good condition, medium upstairs bathroom, all boards screwed down with 50mm screws, solid as a rock, Hardiebacker staggard over floorboard, screwed down with 25mm Turbogolds onto Ultra rapidset, 2mm gap between boards and joins taped.

Tiles laid day after floor prep with Ultra rapidset and 10mm trowel.

Fitted in Feb and lasted 5-6 months before cracks, never had this before but need to know whats caused it.

If I was reading this I'd think movement but from what and where? everything was as solid as a rock and as tight as a drum. Are the tiles fit for purpose?

 

[Stef]

As I said about these tiles previously they are not fit for purpose on a floor.
It's trying to prove they aren't fit for floor use.
Did you tape the joins of the Hardie?
If you didn't they will probably point to this as the cause for the cracks.

 

[Bathfix Bob]

Pics

 

[Bathfix Bob]

All joins double taped.

 

[Andy Allen]

Are any of the tiles loose?

 

[Bathfix Bob]

No tiles loose just pulled apart on hardie seems, all tiles back skimmed.

 

[Andy Allen]

Some of those tiles are soft as ***** and today's modern adhesive are so strong it's the tiles that give before the adhesive..
It will come down to movement on the floor.....every wooden floor will move slightly...most tiles will take it no problem.....and imo there lies the problem.....***** tiles on a wooden floor!!

 

[Italy]

as stated stef,
tile does not break at 2 cm from the edge. as photos n° 5
I think tiles too tender, the hardest tiles are recommended.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

As previously stated - this is a thick wall tile biscuit that I would refuse to use on a floor.
Too late for Bob and with any board material any joins will travel through this soft tile.

Like the BQ porcelain tiles of a few years ago perhaps a thread solely for this tile should highlight the problem.

 

[Bathfix Bob]

So how do you know what tiles to fit? they do say floor tiles on the box.

 

[Stef]

it looks like slight movement in the floor but to crack that close to the grout line then it's the tile also.
Those tiles should never be classed as suitable for floor tiling.
I would demand the rep comes out & get this sorted.

 

[Simons70]

Ceramic tiles crazing ? Baffled ? Advise please !!! - http://www.tilersforums.com/threads/ceramic-tiles-crazing-baffled-advise-please.74405/#post-754765

 

[Dan]

If you're happy to, I'd be happy to move this thread to the public tiling forum and change the thread title to BCT Ceramic Floor Tiles Cracking and get the attention of a few others, and then go back to CTD once they've had some headache from them.

 

[mma]

Is the the skirting coming apart on the corner? Might not be related?

 

[Dan]

I've made my own new thread save your name being on it

 

[Flintstone]

I'm laying some bct ceramics on a small bathroom floor tomorrow, the joy!

 

[LM]

I'm laying some bct ceramics on a small bathroom floor tomorrow, the joy!

Its as simple as this, if you don't think they're up to the job don't lay them or get a written go ahead, thats what I would do anyway 🙂
Why should you have to pick up the cost of a defective product!

 

[Simons70]

Its as simple as this, if you don't think they're up to the job don't lay them or get a written go ahead, thats what I would do anyway 🙂
Why should you have to pick up the cost of a defective product!

Even if you have written paper is still your fault if you know is wrong and you do it!

 

[LM]

Even if you have written paper is still your fault if you know is wrong and you do it!

It depends on the actual issue, it's not like your using bad practice. Your clearly stating due to previous instances regarding this manufacturers tile type your concern and that as the customer is supplying their own materials it's up to them if they choose to proceed. I think it would be hard to successfully lay the blame on the tiler in this instance in a court.
However I do agree that in an instance where bad practice has been used then a written go ahead is worthless.

 

[Simons70]

The true is the fact you are the tradesman,the client not have any authority to tell you how you do your job.Is just up to you if is suitable or not,if you with your experience have any concern about the materials or surface not need to ask to your customer,just refuse to do something wrong.

 

[LM]

The true is the fact you are the tradesman,the client not have any authority to tell you how you do your job.Is just up to you if is suitable or not,if you with your experience have any concern about the materials or surface not need to ask to your customer,just refuse to do something wrong.

It's your duty of care as a charging tradesman to follow propper and due practice, which isn't debated here. If you are being asked to install materials that your customer supplied which have been sold as fit for purpose and in your opinion aren't then you've two options, one walk away and loose that channel of potential future work or two, explain in detail your founded concerns and let them decide. It's not as black and white as some one asking you to lay red biscuit crap on a driveway, you've been asked to fit tiles that have been sold as floor tiles by a reputable manufacturer in a bathroom floor. Your not likely to be found at fault for that. 🙂

 

[LM]

There was a thread on here a few months ago about a job where the tiler perfectly installed some Porcelthin in a lobby area in an office block in London, but the client, against all advise, chose to move excessive weight accross a floor not fit for that purpose and there was a few tiles that cracked. What did the tiler do wrong there? Nothing! Some times you can tell clients the do's and dont's but in the end it's their decision and if it goes all the way judges are smarter than us! 😉

 

[Stef]

There was a thread on here a few months ago about a job where the tiler perfectly installed some Porcelthin in a lobby area in an office block in London, but the client, against all advise, chose to move excessive weight accross a floor not fit for that purpose and there was a few tiles that cracked. What did the tiler do wrong there? Nothing! Some times you can tell clients the do's and dont's but in the end it's their decision and if it goes all the way judges are smarter than us! 😉

That's was Gary & that floor was laid perfect as seen by the photos when they ripped it up.

 

[LM]

That's was Gary & that floor was laid perfect as seen by the photos when they ripped it up.

Gary as in Gary Walsh? Enough said then, rubbish can happen to the best of us, you just gotta make sure we tick all the boxs.

 

[Stef]

Gary as in Gary Walsh? Enough said then, rubbish can happen to the best of us, you just gotta make sure we tick all the boxs.

Yip, one of the best tilers in the business.

 

[LM]

Yip, one of the best tilers in the business.

For what it's worth Stef before I actually joined this forum I'd heard of him, then I seen some of his stuff on YouTube and then since joining the forum, between reading his posts and reading how other people view him, your absolutely right, 'one of the best' indeed 🙂

 

[LM]

I'd say you'll travel along way before you'll meet someone with the same experience

 

[Stef]

I'd say you'll travel along way before you'll meet someone with the same experience

I've been lucky enough to have been on a couple of courses with Gary & he's a gentleman, going through a hard time just now but he will be back showing us how it's done in no time.

 

[LM]

I've been lucky enough to have been on a couple of courses with Gary & he's a gentleman, going through a hard time just now but he will be back showing us how it's done in no time.

Oh ok, didn't know you actually knew him, hope he comes through the hard time 🙂
I've never spoke to the man, just heard a lot 🙂

 

[Andy Allen]

The only issue i would have is the tile manufacturer will do there upmost to blame the fixer.......all they will say is if there tiles are used on a wooden floor the substrate it has to be rock solid and any cracks that appear means to much movement in the floor.....they will wriggle out of it every time.

 

[SJPurdy]

I did have a case a few years ago of floor tiles cracking over a joint in the Hardie backer. In my case it was because of water getting under the Hardie backer and causing a bit of swelling in the floor boards underneath one of the hardie-backer sheets (actually half sheet nearest bathroom door). This sheet lifted slightly relative to the adjacent sheet and so there was a bending in the Hardie layer at the joint which transferred to the tiles and cracked them. In my case I think they were normal floor tiles, so rule everything else out before blaming the tiles in this case.

There are many so called floor tiles which may be suitable for fixing to a floor in an upstairs bathroom (bare feet and slippers only) but also only need to be fixed to a very rigid substrate (more rigid than BS overboarded floor standards?) and probably need decoupling as a standard.

I think there is a case for floor tiles to be given more relevant grading system which should be clear on the packaging eg. as here suitability for fixing to different substrates; suitability for under tile heating, slip resistance, water resistance, abrasive resistance (hardness), etc. One day!