Floor Has Tile Lippage, Wall Tiles Going Up In The Morning! Help Please!

[actionjackson]

Good evening.

I have had a tiler in for the last two days to tile my bathroom with Porcelonosa rectified tiles - 440x660 on the floor (6.5m) & 330x1000 on the walls (10m).

When the tiler quoted for the work i stressed beforehand that i was looking for an A1 job, minimal-zero lippage etc etc and was prepared to pay that little extra so he could take his time.

So....

Day 1

Tiler arrives at 0715 and we discus the floor setting out and agree on a layout. I received a call @ 1500 and the tiler tells me that we are one floor tile short! The tiler calculated the amount of tiles required and asked for 10% extra. Because of the size of the tiles i said to the tiler that i felt 10% wasn't enough but he dissagreed. In any case i ordered 20% on top but we are still one short. Porecelonossa can't deliver this until Monday! I asked if this was the last tile left to be laid (its 3pm) and he told me was having troubles cutting the tiles with his diamond blade so went away to get a water cutter. The tiler then said he will lay & grout the floor the next day and return on Monday to fit the tile. Sounds fair to me but concerned with these problems.

Day 2


Tiler arrives at 0800 when i set off for work. I arrive back home at 1900 having already spoken to the tiler. The floor is almost laid (4 tiles to lay) with no other work completed.

The first thing i noticed was the height of the floor. The bed of adhesive is 12mm height! The subfloor has electric UFH with a SLC ontop and was very flat (my father has a resin driveway business and uses SLC all the time). Is this usual? The adhesive being used is BAL SPF Rapid Set.

On inspection the floor looks ok overall but i have 2 x tiles marked as poor (2mm lippage) but thankfully they are located in a corner of the room and under the toilet so i will live with them.

However there is 3 x tiles marked out as unacceptable.

1 x tile has a 5mm grout line when it should be 2mm. Unfortunately the whole floor fluctuates between 2mm-3.5mm grout lines but i have no choice but to live with it unless we start again. This tile is at the end where the bath meets the floor so should come up ok.

2 x tiles have 2mm lippage which i can't live with. Is this understandable? One of the tiles should be easy to lift as its at the end where he hasn't finished but the other is in the middle of the room. Given i have no spares (tiler said i would have a few spares) i would like it pulled up without damage. Is this possible?

My next big question.... should i cut the job short and get someone else in to do the walls and grout?

 

[jay]

Best to give him a chance to put right at his own expense ,a floor that size should have bugger all lipage ,The set out may work better working from center , and thanks for the pic .

 

[charlie1]

a level has been nowhere near that floor! he has just stuck them down!! See this brings me to another point, some so called tilers think because they can mix some adhesive, comb it on the floor, stck i a tile to it then it makes them a tiler!! what the hell happened to using levels, taking some pride! seeing the look on the customers face when you achieve your nearest attempt at perfection??? I would not sleep if i done that work with such a nice tile!! :-(((((

 

[CJ]

:yikes:

 

[jay]

Whats the name of those tiles?

I laid them on a job last year, they are good to work with.

No excuses from the "Tiler" i use that phrase in the loosest of terms.

and im betting they cut perfect on a manual cutter

 

[charlie1]

that tile needs nice clean lines more than most, insist its redone and do not pay for that shody attempt! Thats a DIY disaster!

 

[actionjackson]

We seem to all be satisfied that the work is nowhere near good enough. Now you need to know what to do from here. All things being fair you should give him a chance to put his work right but in order to do that he would have to rip up the entire floor, then the tiles,adhesive,UFH and the laytex would have been ruined and wasted. No good just kicking him out as it is going to cost you a heap in materials.

You defiantly need to have words with him when he comes back and show him how bad it is.

I will speak with him in the morning and tell him -

a) 4 x tiles will need to be pulled up and replaced at his exspense (tiles & adhesive) even though the deal is that i supply materials

b) I will not require his services for the wall tiles

C) I will pay him the lump sum price for the FULL JOB (less replacement floor tiles & extra adhesive) as agreed if he fully rectifies my floor.

This is a huge comprimse on my account because the reality is i can't afford the time or MONEY (1K plus on tiles) to rip it all up and start again. Ironically i got this guy in on a recommendation from a very very good carpenter. Whats more frustrating is if you look at my old posts, i had problems laying my first tiles and decided to get someone in to do a better job but this work is no better and he has been doing it albeit badly for 20 yrs!

I don't doubt for a minute that you guys are good at what you do, but it doesnt seem very easy to find a tiler thats up to the standard expected.

 

[actionjackson]

I will speak with him in the morning and tell him -

a) 4 x tiles will need to be pulled up and replaced at his exspense (tiles & adhesive) even though the deal is that i supply materials

b) I will not require his services for the wall tiles

C) I will pay him the lump sum price for the FULL JOB (less replacement floor tiles & extra adhesive) as agreed if he fully rectifies my floor.

This is a huge comprimse on my account because the reality is i can't afford the time or MONEY (1K plus on tiles) to rip it all up and start again. Ironically i got this guy in on a recommendation from a very very good carpenter. Whats more frustrating is if you look at my old posts, i had problems laying my first tiles and decided to get someone in to do a better job but this work is no better and he has been doing it albeit badly for 20 yrs!

I don't doubt for a minute that you guys are good at what you do, but it doesnt seem very easy to find a tiler thats up to the standard expected.

Is this fair??

 

[Gall.B]

Take it this is the guy that wanted to use tubs on the walls I said case him then and im saying it now before he destroys more product.

Shame theres nobody local from the forum.

 

[Rich]

It does, could you answer my above post regarding floor prep. I dont want you to go through all that and then the floor fail in 3 months time anyway.

This is so horrid to see and it boils our blood that people like this are still trading. There are amazingly good tilers out there but they are outnumbered by these bloody idiots Im afraid.

 

[actionjackson]

Tiler required in East Dereham (Norfolk) ASAP to complete wall and help me!

Please PM me or call on 07879 118885

Cheers
Neil

 

[charlie1]

problem with fixing individule tiles is.... you fix one error and it simply highlights another, before you know it youve relayed the whole room!... and im NOT speaking from experience lol. I would imagine it will need redone!

 

[Rich]

Is it worth posting the job again? It is very easy to miss posts on here...

What area are you in?

 

[actionjackson]

It does, could you answer my above post regarding floor prep. I dont want you to go through all that and then the floor fail in 3 months time anyway.

This is so horrid to see and it boils our blood that people like this are still trading. There are amazingly good tilers out there but they are outnumbered by these bloody idiots Im afraid.

Prep completed by myself and very good retired carpenter/cabinet maker.

18mm T&G on joists screwed 200mm centres
overboarded with 15mm plywood 200mm centres
Marmox acoustic tile backerboards (brand new product)
Electric UFH mat
6mm SLC (my father did this as he specialises in resin driveways so is very good with leveling compounds)

 

[actionjackson]

Whats the name of those tiles?

I laid them on a job last year, they are good to work with.

No excuses from the "Tiler" i use that phrase in the loosest of terms.

Ferroker

 

[jay]

Tiler required in East Dereham (Norfolk) ASAP to complete wall and help me!

Please PM me or call on 07879 118885

Cheers
Neil

One for the new mod to place in appropriate section Bri

 

[jay]

Is this fair??

Yes that sounds more than fair

good luck

 

[peteablard]

Personally I wouldn't, give him the full price of the job just to put the floor right. I don't think he'd be capable of putting it right otherwise he'd have done it right in the first place. You would be better off spending the money on someone who knows what they are doing IMO. Whatever you decide, good luck with getting this sorted

 

[jay]

Thought we were just talking full price on the floor only

 

[peteablard]

I think I might have read it wrong Jay, It's early and I'm still half asleep zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[EverDon Tiling]

If i laid and left a floor in that state i wouldn't want paying i would be to embarrassed to ask.There is no reason why they should not be perfect.

 

[widler]

a level has been nowhere near that floor! he has just stuck them down!! See this brings me to another point, some so called tilers think because they can mix some adhesive, comb it on the floor, stck i a tile to it then it makes them a tiler!! what the hell happened to using levels, taking some pride! seeing the look on the customers face when you achieve your nearest attempt at perfection??? I would not sleep if i done that work with such a nice tile!! :-(((((

the floor is bad,totally agree.
using levels on some jobs is impossible,as a straight edge,to get the floor flat is fine,but level,as said before no chance.
i have been on jobs where if you level a floor there would be a 6" step at the door,if every floor was flat and level the world would be a better place :drool5:.
ps,if you mean using a level to get a floor flat not level,ignore me:smilewinkgrin:

pps,im certainly not sticking up for this 'tiler',a young lad who works for me would of done a better job,in fact,he would of had too or he would be on the dole

oh and to the thread starter DO NOT PAY HIM A PENNY

 

[Andy Allen]

not a very good job at all, however, do the right thing and give him the chance to put the floor right, if he succeeds in doing this then i would pay him an agreed sum for the floor ONLY, then tell him his services are no longer required for the rest of the contract.


any money needed to put the floor right should be paid for by him, as he is correcting his own mistakes...

 

[Rich]

I will wait to here what his reaction is to you voicing your concerns.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Job posted on here but no responses!

I remember seeing something but can't find it in 'looking for a tiler' section, so it must have been in one of your posts. Thought it had a number of views and assumed you'd got sorted.
It's so very disappointing when the work is not to the standard you requested and it certainly leaves a difficult situation to be resolved. No doubt by now 10-00am you've had your tiler round and a decision has been made. Hopefully it is amicable and you will be looking for a new start. Good luck and you can always PM tilers local to you for costings and see their work on their albums in Tilers Forum.

 

[Gazzer]

I remember seeing something but can't find it in 'looking for a tiler' section, so it must have been in one of your posts. Thought it had a number of views and assumed you'd got sorted.
It's so very disappointing when the work is not to the standard you requested and it certainly leaves a difficult situation to be resolved. No doubt by now 10-00am you've had your tiler round and a decision has been made. Hopefully it is amicable and you will be looking for a new start. Good luck and you can always PM tilers local to you for costings and see their work on their albums in Tilers Forum.

Here it is http://www.tilersforums.com/im-looking-wall-floor-tiler/54070-tiler-required-dereham-norfolk.html

 

[jay]

Would be this one http://www.tilersforums.com/im-looking-wall-floor-tiler/54070-tiler-required-dereham-norfolk.html


beat me again Neale Bugger

 

[Gazzer]

Would be this one http://www.tilersforums.com/im-looking-wall-floor-tiler/54070-tiler-required-dereham-norfolk.html

Yes Jay it would .....:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Bathfix Bob]

I'm on tenterhooks, what was the outcome actionjackson?

 

[actionjackson]

I'm on tenterhooks, what was the outcome actionjackson?

update guys....

To begin with i woukd like to say thanks for the support and reasuring me that my expectaions are realistic.

The tiller arrived at 0830, 30 mins late with no notice even though he is 5mins down the road. Not a good start when you have plans to be somewhere at 0900.

I told him i was dissapointed with the work carried out on the floor and needed an explanation. We looked closely at the "unaceptable" tiles and to begin with he said he would replace them. However as i continued to point the flaws out, he quickly turned around and said "i can walk away if your not happy with my work, lm too old to be falling out with you". He agreed the floor was not right but couldnt explain why. He did point the finger at the 2mm grout line and said if i had gone for a wider joint as he wanted then you wouldnt notice the lippage. We all know what my response was. Then he said the tiles were bowed! I said if thats the case you should have refussed to fit them and told me. These are £55 per mtr tiles and should be perfect or as near as perfect. I told him i had lost confidence in his ability and would alllow him to walk away, but appreciated he had a good reputation so was prepared to accept it was a one off and no hard feelings. I asked how much he wanted bearing in mind he traveled to collect materials, but he didnt no . I said i would have a think and drop it round his house tonight.

I have estimated i need £100 worth of new tiles,£40 of adhesive and 1 days labour (£140??) To remove crap tiles and prepare for retiling. The guy spent 2 days on site and 2 hours collecting materials. What should i give him?

The search is on for a tiler to get me out of this mess!

 

[Andy Allen]

i would say its about evens to be honest, but if you want to give something to cover his fuel picking up the materials thats up to you, i think you have handled the situation admirabley, no one wants or needs a slanging match....