Floor Tiling advice and are additives necessary?

[Andy Allen]

I'm not really asking you to agree ...

My comments were aimed at other DIY users reading the forum...

As I stated......

You can't really disagree with things you haven't tried on a daily base...

 

[Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall]

I looked for some data on the mixing speed and size / type of paddle some time back. I noted most paddle mixers were around 700-800 rpm but the Rubimix is a two paddle two speed gearbox machine.

• Electronic regulator (1st 0-450 r.p.m. / 2nd 0-780 r.p.m.).Ø maximum paddle: 160 mm.

I couldn't spot data from the adhesive manufacturers. I have been using a drill also (Dewalt battery 996, 3 speed, 0-500/1500/2250 plus the electronic trigger. I use a 600mm paddle in the drill.

Would anyone have advice on what the mix speeds should be, if the two paddle is better/worse/irrelevant and if there is any manufacturer's data?

[ed. should I pull this out into a seperate thread?]

 

[Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall]

Andy.
As another DIY person I appreciate the post. My first tile cutter was free from Topps about 300 years ago. The benefits of a grinder to cut I can appreciate. As for the videos SalDiblasi I have watched which seem to have positive reviews.

For those of us that dont make a living from this kind of work the feedback and help given is great. I have yet to see 'google it' as an answer.

 

[Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall]

Granty.

Its good to see your result and the problems you have encountered. I moderate a forum myself (for a long time) and some of the posts make me want to cry (or be sick, or both ). I remember thinking this exact thing when I asked recently what size gap to leave under a tiles above a kitchen worktop (before the forum I would have just not really thought about it so Im glad I asked). I had a defined and practical response but the poster probably thought oh for the love of what a pleb . I think what I am trying to say is the feedback these people give you, us, is really valuable and is peer reviewed. If Andy or whoever say do it like this another will say no way dont do that etc.

I use a straight edge to tile from personally if possible (I couldnt in a wet room so easily), and the setting up before the job starts is ever so important. I was interested (maybe stretching the word) in the different notch sizes and shapes of trowels - which led me to this is all great if the backing is flat. Soon as it isnt things are not so nice.

The floor looks good and your family are happy which is brilliant. Im sure others will enjoy reading the post.

I do have one complaint with this forum, and that is I cannot now watch an episode of come dine with me without pausing and moaning at someone tiles in a kitchen.

 

[Granty]

I'm not really asking you to agree ...

My comments were aimed at other DIY users reading the forum...

As I stated......

You can't really disagree with things you haven't tried on a daily base...

I get that, but your post did start with "Try again" which I took as a veto that it couldn't be done the way I had no problem doing it!
In a DIY Forum it's not really reasonable to expect people to go out and buy all the favoured top end gear for a one off job, I have a pretty decent Dewalt brushless 2 gear drill and whilst I probably pushed it to its limit at one point whilst sliding down that learning curve it did do the job without too much hassle.
I would certainly advise people to understand that they could be mixing around 25kg of adhesive with added water/additives which isn't something that could be easily done by hand if even possible? A good quality drill with a low speed setting should work fine as it did for me.
I just think in a DIY forum many people will be looking for the basic tools that can do the job.

The main point for me was to learn and another was to save money which enabled us to buy these tiles, she took some persuading let me tell you but she bought into the idea long before I started the job. When I said to her I'm not a tiler, I've never done a floor so there is a small chance something unforeseen could happen, she said if it goes wrong it's not the end of the world to which I said its highly unlikely but it is a first for me and as I said earlier in these forums I wasn't willing to start the job until I was pretty sure I knew what I was doing.
Anyway I wanted her onboard, I wanted her to know there may be slight imperfections but that if I did this there's a high chance I'll be able to do the job any time we needed it. She surprised me with that as at one point £400 for tiles could have been a battle, I agreed to do the back of the house with her choice of tile so that's the compromise, but she's happy, she complained about the mess when she got back in but little did she realise that I'd cleaned none stop as I went, cleaned the tools and buckets between mixes, she probably saw 5% of the overall mess and there we go again, thats the other tiring thing I just remembered in what really is a labour intensive job.
I guess that becomes more managable with the skill level though I did wonder, do most tilers work in pairs/teams or alone?
Fair play to you guys, I was a bit annoyed before the job as some doubt was there after I visited these forums but after the job I could see where most of that advice was coming from.
I think someone said Quartz tiles where nearly the end of him, that went through my mind halfway through Lol though the quartz really was an easy cut so i'd maybe say large format tiles we're nearly the end of me

 

[Granty]

Granty.

Its good to see your result and the problems you have encountered. I moderate a forum myself (for a long time) and some of the posts make me want to cry (or be sick, or both ). I remember thinking this exact thing when I asked recently what size gap to leave under a tiles above a kitchen worktop (before the forum I would have just not really thought about it so Im glad I asked). I had a defined and practical response but the poster probably thought oh for the love of what a pleb . I think what I am trying to say is the feedback these people give you, us, is really valuable and is peer reviewed. If Andy or whoever say do it like this another will say no way dont do that etc.

I use a straight edge to tile from personally if possible (I couldnt in a wet room so easily), and the setting up before the job starts is ever so important. I was interested (maybe stretching the word) in the different notch sizes and shapes of trowels - which led me to this is all great if the backing is flat. Soon as it isnt things are not so nice.

The floor looks good and your family are happy which is brilliant. Im sure others will enjoy reading the post.

I do have one complaint with this forum, and that is I cannot now watch an episode of come dine with me without pausing and moaning at someone tiles in a kitchen.

Thanks Julian, good to see the positive attitude, I'm certainly glad I found these forums as the adhesive with additive was new to me. I certainly came away from here knowing I had the right stuff which was the main reason why I signed up. China pencils came from here too, though the paddle mixer, back buttering and rich tea biscuits on standby all came from youtube....Sorry guys

 

[Granty]

One further thing I probably should mention is that the Bal fibre plus from Topps was expensive, I mentioned the young lady seemed to be a bit too eager to sell, well she told me the Bal 20kg was 1 to 1 with the admix but after i'd brought the Granirapid the guy at Topps said to me "I think she told you it was 1 to 1 but its actually 1 to 3" I think the admix was expensive so that could have had a difference on my choice at the time? I think the Mapei would still be cheaper though and if I did it again I'd definitely use that Granirapid with silicon/latex additive.
That was simply 1 20kg bag (Part A) to one supplied container (Part B) and much cheaper than Topps even on a pallet!
Though as I was using large format tiles I did just go into a 4th mix of this (3 Mapei, 1 Bal Fibre plus as couldn't source other locally), so 4 bags were opened where I thought 3 would be ample, was a helter skelter at times that curve!

 

[Andy Allen]

The "try again" bit was referring to me posting again, as I already tried to make a post on the forum, but it didn't come out as the forum seems to be having some issues.......hence why you can see my deleted post....
Sorry for the confusion, it was in no way aimed at you...

 

[Andy Allen]

My post weren't directed at you personally...
And please don't take it that way.

As you say, alot of DIY people read this forum, I was simply putting my veiw across to help them.

A grinder can be bought for as little as £30 a decent blade £15........and if you have never tried using a grinder for cutting tiles you would never know the difference between that and a cheap wet cutter...

Paddle mixers ....£50 to £60

All of which you could sell again if doing a one off job...

 

[Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall]

Granty
https://www.bal-adhesives.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/BAL-Product-Guide.pdf

The tables may help with the admix ratio advised by BAL. The link on there website to the product guide is for 2016 but doesn't work (for me) hence I went and found the above.

I always follow the manufactures guidelines on mixing and the use of digital scales where needed.

I did notice this adhesive had some specific guidance for electric drill mixing. 'NOTE: If using electric drill mixer, blend at slow speed (i.e. under 300rpm).'. I dont know if thats for the benefit of the adhesive or the drill or something else.

Also if there are doubts regarding mixing ratios you can always phone the manufacturer, ask on here, try and find the data (I struggled for your products).

 

[Granty]

My post weren't directed at you personally...
And please don't take it that way.

As you say, alot of DIY people read this forum, I was simply putting my veiw across to help them.

A grinder can be bought for as little as £30 a decent blade £15........and if you have never tried using a grinder for cutting tiles you would never know the difference between that and a cheap wet cutter...

Paddle mixers ....£50 to £60

All of which you could sell again if doing a one off job...

Ha np got you, I didn't take offence just thought well it worked ok for me and could for others. I did look at the mixers, saw one around £70 so no doubt you are right and I could see some drills struggling. I honestly would have likely overlooked the whole mechanical mixing issue had I not searched an online check list.
Do you just mean a simple angle grinder? or something with a guide? I've only ever used standard manual cutters and the wet cutter I have, so not considered anything other though I do maintain that the wet cutter I used made very light work of these particular tiles, the only one issue was the water obscuring the white line I'd marked on the tiles but a bit of fiddling with the blade guard made that workable. I'll certainly bare that in mind though once my wet cutter has past it's time, thanks

 

[T14086]

The Plasplugs cutter worked seemlessly on these type of tiles, it was extremely easy

Must agree although never tried another cutter or grinder to be fair. Was not expecting much for £40 but it effortlessly cut through enough tiles for small bathroom including the floor and disc still good . For someone like myself who will only tile once in a blue moon it was a great buy.....bugger to clean if left for few days though