free estimates or not

[andy-p]

Dave , i dont think anybody was having a go at mike , just giving their advice which he after all asked for, thats the thing about asking people for their opinions you dont always get the answer you want, any way good luck mike whatever you do mate...

 

[DHTiling]

LOL.. I didn't say anybody was.. just my 2 penneth that he can say it without backlash.. some guilt there is there..:lol:.. ( joke)..

 

[mikethetile]

thaks Dave

but there was no offence taken , I was just asking they read my posts before answering as they were getting the wrong idea

I did ask others opinions and got them LOL, which is fair enough. and I got the amswer to my problem too . so a big thanks to Kilty and this forum

this Jan and Feb I was asking about a situation that I got myself into, I had a successfull business from 91 on and then due to family pressures I took a job as a site agent for 6 yrs during wich time I seperated from my wife , I jacked the job in and went back on the tools, i didnt have time to build from mscratch and had moved to a new city so I took all work I could get at any price, it worked for a time but I wasnt being asked to price for the skilled higher paid work so when things went wrong a couple of years ago I was in no position to ride it out and was competing with the chancers and low skilled for low paid work

the advice I got from this forum was invaluable. and with no proper marketing in place Ive had a brilliant year ,mostly on word of mouth reccomendations. now comes another problem. ive got too much work coming in . so im booking in and refusing the rest. this was ok in the summer as any cancellations were quickly replaced with another job. problem has meen the run up to xmas. I could have filled this slot several times over but couldnt as it was booked, I got cancellation after cancellation and now its too late to book someone in so im not working now till after the new year

so I need a system to weed out the messers early on so I can book genuine people in to my available slots. I cant see there being an issue with genuine customers paying a deposit if it gaurantees they have that slot, and in the cases of genuine reasons to cancel I will return their deposit and rebook that slot.
ive had quite a few messers this year and have now written into my terms that I may at my discretion charge them for my time, genuine customers who simply want their job done having nothing to fear from this
this years task is to sort my marketing out so im only attracting the right kind of customer and should be able to cherrypick the best customers and so avoid these problems going forward

we are all in for a rough ride next year and only those that have planned for it and covered their rear ends will survive. I intend ti buck the trend and continue to grow my business as I firmly believe that the more tradesmen there are fighting for work the more care the customers will take in choosing one, they wont employ just anyone because they cant find someone to do their work

I like the way spanishtiler does business , he mentioned quarterly financial reviews in another post, hes on top of his business and knows at any given time where he is and what profit hes making. a good example to us all

 

[mikethetile]

I would like to thank Dave again for his moderation of this thread

I did ask for others opinions and was pleased to recieve them but a few comments were heading in the wrong direction and had I fired back in the same tone then things could quite quickly have got out of hand and admin would have had no choice but to step in and close the thread

moderation is a thankless task especially with so many intelligent strong minded regulars on the forum, your damned if you and damned if you dont. as it is this thread is still open for others to post their views in this subject

so a big thanks to Dave and lets help admin by trying to keep this forum a fun place to be as well as somewhere to have serious adult debate

 

[mz30]

Hi mike,

I hope you dont think my post was meant to have a go at you as that was not my intention,i always try and give my honest opinion even if i come across as being rather blunt,no offence is ever meant.

I can only give you advice on the way i do things mate and they are far removed from what other guys do.

I have a diary for my domestic work and a diary for my contract work,my contract work keeps me busy pretty much all year round and my domestic work is done when i have spare time weekends etc.

With contract work i work for a few tiling companies who i have dealt with for years and they always pay (except for one who went bust,but i got paid anyway).

With my domestic jobs a handshake on the job is all i need and i will put them in my diary were i can,i only tile i dont do refits so for a standard bathroom its usually under £500(labour only),but if i asked for a deposit i think i would be chased,hence me asking if you do full bathrooms ie. the plumbing etc and supplying all the materials if thats the case then you are fully entitled to ask for a deposit.

I sincerely hope that what ever you decide it works out for you

 

[mikethetile]

I did this a few years back, when things were hectic and I had quotes coming out of my ears and did it to get rid of the time wasters. It worked quite well at getting rid of them and customers got it knocked off their bill if they went ahead. But I think I got away with it as all my quotes came from recommendation, so they knew what to expect.

I phased it out, and put my prices up considerably instead. This had the same effect and kept me focused on the top end of the market, where I wanted to be. I now just build in the cost if the quote into my price and it all evens out in the long run.

thats the market im after Stewart, I raised my rates several times through the year and have just done so again, with the first couple of increases I won more work not less and had to rise again to regulate the work

the position I have been in is that im getting booked solid and having to turn work away as I cant meet their timescale, which isnt a problem till you start getting last minute cancellations, if it was just me I would be wondering what im doing wrong but im getting off light compared to others I know. im charging high so do I cut my rate when someone rings to cancel as they can get it done considerably cheaper. theres no loyalty, they will book with you and when someone says get so and so in hes done a good job cheaper than the bloke you found they will cancel

taking a deposit on booking should reduce this , what about the jobs I dont price because I cant fit them in, they are losing out too

this year I intend to avoid that game and aim for top end work only

 

[doug boardley]

I think whatever you do, you have to be constant with no chopping and changing. I set my prices and customers will accept or decline as is their choice. I refuse to get drawn into a bidding war and choose to remain focused on what I do best, tiling. I've always had work to go to, albeit the diary isn't booked up as much these days so far in advance, but I don't see any reason to change my modus operandi at present.

 

[mikethetile]

im sticking to my rates Doug, if I start dropping them because they got a cheaper quote it would look as if I was overcharging them

 

[Stewart]

Mike....

You have to run your business the way you see fit. If it be charging for estimates, doubling your prices or giving huge discounts. You have to do what works for you.

If there's a Market in your area for a high-end tradesmen, at high end prices then make the most of it and go get it. I believe there is in most area's, and if you stay constant, stick to your guns and provide a quality service, then you can charge what you want. But you do have to stay constant with your prices and service.

With this business and the previous partnership I had. I've always ran them as a Harvey Nicol's, as a-posed to a corner shop. I believe a top tradesmen is as important as a doctor or lawyer and should run his business the same way. When I'm on a job I make it clear that I believe I'm the top trade and that what I do is the most important part of the job. The customers appreciate this, as that's what they're paying for.

I've had endless amounts of stick from other trades and tilers regarding my prices and attitude, but I have a ton of work and a healthy business account to boot, so I can live with the abuse. It may seem arrogant, but it's a fine line between that and confidence in your own abilities and some peeps don't know the difference.

So go for what you think you can achieve and good luck.

P.s..... when talking of abuse, I'm talking about the building trade in general, and not any of the comments on this thread.

 

[mikethetile]

thanks stewart, harvey nicks is a good analogy, yes i have the confidence and skills to provide the standard of work and service , just need to work a bit on my image and marketing

 

[DHTiling]

I set my prices and customers will accept or decline as is their choice.

Great phrase Doug.. that is my motto..




Mike.. that is what we are here for mate.. Good threads need to stop live.. and thanks to all who have contributed.

 

[andy-p]

You know reading through these posts we are all on the same wavelength , high end of the market , provide an excellent sevice and charge accordingly, i reckon its an internet thing that sometimes a thread gets sidetracked, if we were sitting in a pub discussing this subject we would all be shaking hands and fighting to buy the next round :lol: ,anyway this forum always continues to be a great source of friendly info and advice , gosh darn im welling up , theres a lot of love in this room he he

 

[cornish_crofter]

I've always given free estimates Mike, and I shall continue to do so, but tbh most people don't ask me for an estimate, just ask if and when I can do it.

That is the same position that I'm in a lot of the time.

The bigger jobs are sometimes subjected to an estimate. Smaller jobs are 'can we pay you by the hour?' or "When can you do it?"

I'm in a position at the moment where I've given an estimate but had to revise it upwards by £600 almost immediately after starting because of a few extra requirements and establishing issues with the drainage leaking and having to be refitted.

I do give free estimates. The way I look at it is that it gets you into the house. If you don't get that job, usually the customer either calls you for something else or your name gets passed on.

If I'm asked to estimate for painting and decorating, the customer is passed the name of a good painter and decorator. He recently reciprocated - I made a tidy sum supplying and fitting a UPVC french door thanks to him