Gyvlon screeds..

[jamie B]

They are not aggro if you know how to treat them. You are right that the knowledge base out there amongst the floor layers is confused and uncertain. If you have any specific questions I would be perfectly happy to answer them either through the forums or privately if you prefer.
I can assure you all that there has been ovet he last 12 months a massive up take into the self build and small builder market which means that for most tilers I guess on here you will come across them more and more.

The only issues I really come across is either inappropriate combinations of materials or more commonly in all honesty good materials used badly.

thanks mate, as with dave's post any info is good info..I'm finding my main bug bear with bigger builders (persimmons /st james etc) is when it comes to pricing regarding the rubbing down. I've had to fight my corner a few times now to get them to provide a labourer as its' not in my price (as it's not specified at estimate) .might sound pedantic..but time is money and these buggers don't like it up 'em when you start booking prep as daywork.
like I said efore ..the knowledge gap seems to be in the prep.

 

[jamie B]

as an addition to above, I'd like to hear your thoughts on sealer/adhesive combos.
thanks again!

 

[Ajax123]

thanks mate, as with dave's post any info is good info..I'm finding my main bug bear with bigger builders (persimmons /st james etc) is when it comes to pricing regarding the rubbing down. I've had to fight my corner a few times now to get them to provide a labourer as its' not in my price (as it's not specified at estimate) .might sound pedantic..but time is money and these buggers don't like it up 'em when you start booking prep as daywork.
like I said efore ..the knowledge gap seems to be in the prep.

I know for a fact that persimmons group are well aware of the need to sand Gyvlon screeds when they are the oold fashioned skinned type. I think they are probably aware of the requirements for ensuring the new generation skin free type also need to be cleaned up - albeit the sanding need not be quite so aggressive. There may of course be an element of over selling on the part of some of the screeders - I have certainly come across sites where the client has been told that they are using low laitance and so it don't need sanding. This is not necessarily true (although does depend on the coverings). The issue I have is that I can't say some need sanding and some don't so I treat them all the same and say if it is skin free it does not need sanding to remove skin because it has notne but it might need sanding for other reasons e.g. to remove site dirt and debris, dust etc.etc. I say the same to you as I will anyone else if you need any input from me to back up your proposals for site prep just give me a shout. If I can help I will. Obviously I also come across tilers who try to go over the top. I get a bit annoyed at this as well cos it is all down to education IMO.

 

[jamie B]

Thanks again..will take you up on that should the need arise!
..have to be carefull what I say re. persimmons....they're aware of a lot of things...doesn't make much difference at the sharp end of the stick.

 

[Ajax123]

Thanks again..will take you up on that should the need arise!
..have to be carefull what I say re. persimmons....they're aware of a lot of things...doesn't make much difference at the sharp end of the stick.

Completely agree. They are aware of manyb things but don't let on. Tight wads.....
I am looking at ground floor constructions at the moment and the builders I am talking to are saying if I can show them any savings at all - even 2 or 3p a square meter then they will consider - I suppose it all adds up though eh.

 

[Gazzer]

I have asked site agents/ builders in the past if the floor is sand and cement or freefloow/Gyvlon etc and have been met with a blank expression.
Where is the tiler left if they were lead to believe it was a sand and cement screed and then at a later date due to a failure the floor was said to be Gyvlon etc.
How is a tiler supposed to know... I know the site agent/builder should know but they are either trying to fool us or they are not aware of the problems. Also why are they willing to take the bonus of the new screeds being cheaper but not so understanding when you discuss our extra prep ???

 

[Ajax123]

I have asked site agents/ builders in the past if the floor is sand and cement or freefloow/Gyvlon etc and have been met with a blank expression.
Where is the tiler left if they were lead to believe it was a sand and cement screed and then at a later date due to a failure the floor was said to be Gyvlon etc.
How is a tiler supposed to know... I know the site agent/builder should know but they are either trying to fool us or they are not aware of the problems. Also why are they willing to take the bonus of the new screeds being cheaper but not so understanding when you discuss our extra prep ???

First bold bit......I have come across this a few times - welll quite a few times to be more accurate and it baffles me a bit. I always encourage flooring contractors when told they are to cover a screed that they should ask what sort of screed. Now I can sort of understand the client not knowing if the screed contract is with the builder and the tiling contract is with the end client but if you are asking the builder/site agent and he still does not know it scares me a bit.

I think one useful tip is to ask was it liquid screed or semi dry. Most of the time this gives the right reponse. If it was liquid screed it could still be cement based but usually these will crack big time where as calcium sulphate does not crack any where near as much. If you really cannot get the information needed though, either through the builder, client, screeder, screed supplier etc then I guess you would be best to treat it like calcium sulphate anyway.

You are right that there is an element of liability if you do not bother to find out what screed it is. However I don't beleive any court would convict if you have made all reasonable efforts to find out and have been misled.

Second bold bit...... Actually, and particularly in smaller installations, these screeds are not always cheaper. There are many other benefits which lead to them making the decision. I know that whenever I deal with a client they are completely informed of any requirements for prep, primer types etc etc. Sadly there is only one of me and I don't come across the vast majority of the installations.

It is for that reason that I embarked on a crusade......oh I mean programme of education primarily through the manufacturers of adhesives and primers etc so that they are able (I hope) to advise you correctly. The next logical step is to start interacting more directly with the tilers and of course other flooring contractors. It is having some impact so I am quite pleased with myself. Still a long long way to go though.