Help Ocd Customer From Hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JIMBOB187]

Hi guys and Gals.

Just finished a customers bathroom walls and floor and now he is refusing to pay and has been extremely rude to me on the telephone. Throughout the job he has been leaving me notes about tiles being out by 1-2mm, he followed me around with a spirit level, the list goes on. I finished the job on Saturday and my colleague agreed the job looks excellent. The customer was away until today and he has just rung. I let him rant on for a good ten minutes about terrible tiling, disgusting tiling etc etc, he calle dthe floor a trip hazard but then agreed he was exagerrating, he said the door bar had been cut 2mm too short(my pencil line) he said he has been sat in the bathroom for two hours with his spirit level picking fault and is now refusing to pay me, what can I do. I believe everything to be within BS tolerance but have been told that Trading Standards always side with the customer he also threatend mne by saying his daughter is a solicitor. Can I take the tiles back off the wall and get my adhesive back I wonder...... HELP PLEASE, he is not prepared to meet until next Monday either so even if I do get paid it will be over a week later, police, solicitors what can I do?.
Jim

 

[Droopy]

Sorry to hear that, Jimbob.

I would be at his door tomorrow morning to strip the lot TBH, but that might not be the best thing to do.

You might want to take advice from a less hotheaded Tiler than me before following my route of action.

 

[tiler burden]

firstly,

trading standards do not side with the customer and regardless of whether his daughter is a solicitor is irrelevant.

arrange a day to jointly view the job with the customer. take photos/video of the job and more specifically, the faults that he claims are evident. if there are faults, offer to rectify, if not, stand your ground and threaten him with legal action.

always stay calm, try and get an independant witness. encourage trade and standards to try and attend this meeting. keep evidence and diary notes. if he still refuses to pay, then take him to the small claims courts (costs around £40)
if you have done everything by the book then you stand a really good chance of getting your money...what court in the land would rule against you if you have done the job to b/standards, been co-operative and polite and kept evidence of your procedures..

it sounds like he is out to rip you off because any fair and decent person would have a constructive list and they would be prepared to listen to your compromise.


what ever you do, dont go in to his house and start losing your temper or knocking off tiles, that would be construed as criminal damage. if you even poke a finger at him and it touches his body and he has a witness, then that is section 39 , common assault, so keep your cool...

there is another option. you could enlist a debt collection agency. they probably would take over half of what he owes you but they are very pursuasive and are legal!!

 

[tubs]

Sorry to hear of your situation, but I would start sending some Solicitors letters !

 

[floydyboy]

I would arange to go back and corect the work he is having a go aboutn , when there take them all off the wall and stack them tidy then walk out , that way he doe not get a job done for nothing, i know you will be out of pocket but at least you will know you had 1 up on him :lol: and then any more nonsense give him a good:mad2: chinning lol

 

[Brindle]

I aint no expert, but the calm approach would have to be that you inform the customer that if he is not going to pay you in full within x days for the work carried out as agreed, then you will have to take further action to retrieve the payment.
Have you got plenty of photo's of the job etc?
Then if the guy's not going to pay, I would then look into the Small claims court. Sounds like he's a t**t and it would be kind of nice to remove everything!
I had an OCD client who moaned and queried everything from the quote until the sealer was dry. Luckily he paid up though. Had he not, I was fully prepared to go down SCCourt route.
You could look at the Consumer Action Group forum for more info on the process??
Good luck Jbob
Bob

 

[Droopy]

firstly,

trading standards do not side with the customer and regardless of whether his daughter is a solicitor is irrelevant.

arrange a day to jointly view the job with the customer. take photos/video of the job and more specifically, the faults that he claims are evident. if there are faults, offer to rectify, if not, stand your ground and threaten him with legal action.

always stay clam, try and get an independant witness. encourage trade and standards to try and attend this meeting. keep evidence and diary notes. if he still refuses to pay, then take him to the small claims courts (costs around £40)
if you have done everything by the book then you stand a really good chance of getting your money...what court in the land would rule against you if you have done the job to b/standards, been co-operative and polite and kept evidence of yur procedures..

it sounds like he is out to rip you off because any fair and decent person would have a constructive list and they would be prepared to listen to your compromise.


what ever you do, dont go in to his house and start losing your temper or knocking off tiles, that would be construed as criminal damage. if you even poke a finger at him and it touches his bidy and he has a witness, then that is section 39 , common assault, so kep your cool...

there is another option. you could enlist a debt collection agency. they probably would take over half of what he owes you but they are very pursuasive and are legal!!

I'm not saying that i would force my way in then wreck the place.
I may have a temper, but I also have a fairly decent brain.

I would ask him to point out the problems for me to fix.
Then I would strip off all the problem area, then, if i was feeling generous, refuse to fix it untill I was paid in full.

 

[davy_G]

This is a tricky one. It sounds like he has had issues all along and he must have known that he would not be satisfied with the finished job yet he let you continue. I would be inclined to suggest if he is not happy that I would gladly remove all the tiles and leave the job ready for another tiler as leaving the job as it is is unsatisfactory to him. It may well be that he is trying it on to get a freebie, if you think he is then even offer to replace all the tiles but dont leave them on the wall!
Other than that suggest another independant tiler look at the work with you both and come to some arrangemnet where you get something out of it.

 

[Home Tiler]

Jimbob

If it was me i would ask him to show me all the faults he thinks should be better ...and i would then rectify them while he was there... (until he was satisfied....)
that way you get paid and he has no excuses

good luck mate

Steve

 

[JIMBOB187]

I can totally gaurantee you that this guy will never be satisfied ina million years.:mad2:

 

[brian c]

sorry to hear about the customer from hell jimbob.let us know what the outcome is m8.very tricky situation so tread carefully m8,all the best....Bri

 

[Home Tiler]

I can totally gaurantee you that this guy will never be satisfied ina million years.:mad2:

I would still try mate...

and if he doesn't accept...... then offer the services of a another tiler to rectify any mistakes if there is any...

if he still says no ... then start legal actions....

thing is ..it's probably more hassle than what it's worth so all i can say is... i hope it works out for you


Steve

 

[Grace'sDad]

This advice / experience is a bit late now but I had one of these a few months back. She seemed OK until part way into the job. A few comments and notes left were worrying me so I talked it through with her - her expectations (which turned out to be pretty unreal regarding mirror-flat flooring) and my expectations coupled with references to British Standards, re levels, spacing etc. I insisted that she sign copies of our "revised" agreement before I'd continue and assured her that it was for her protection as well as mine.

Interestingly, on my last day on the job she was having a heated argument with the plumbers. One of them told me she'd be haggling with me over the price but when it came to bill time she was really happy and didn't quibble once. I even had a compliment on the quality!!!

With regard to removing tiles - my understanding was that you could be done for criminal damage - even if they were your tiles until paid for. But didn't that case a couple of weeks ago of the extension on the council house set a new precedent? The builder had permission from the council and police to go and "retrieve" his unpaid-for materials. My brother in law who is a PC, reckons as long as you cause no material damage to the householder's property and don't trespass (i.e. stay when asked to leave) then you could in theory remove tiles, although this would a be last-ditch satisfaction-only action for me!

 

[IvegotsTILE]

Send him a letter saying the job was carried out to BS and that the work was well within the guidlines of exceptability.Demand payment in full within 7 days or you will take him to the small claims court which will incur him the charge of (around)£50 for the court case.£150 for your time processing the court claim and 8% per day interest on everything outstanding.

This is the legal way of doing things and might show him you mean business and are not going away.Welcome trading standards as I think they will side with you,get in contact with them yourself even.

The problem is I bet he does this with everyone that does work for him,maybe his daughter is a solicitor and I bet he knows the law backwards,he'll probably know that if you go to court it'll take anywhere between 4-8 months to sort out.

I know a builder who had a similar problem,trading standards bought in a building inspecter who said the job was faultless and in the end the builder only got £11,000 back out of the £18,000 and it cost him over £3,000 insolicitors fees.
He did this the correct way through the courts and look what good it did him.

Try the letter and if it doesn't work after a week scratch his car BADLY so it causes thousands of pounds of damage,next week put a window through and keep doing things till he pays up,but never mention anything about it to anyone not even saying to him something nice like "Shame about your car!"He's clever enough to know its you so he'd sooner pay for the tiling knowing that it'll cost him more in the long run.

I'm sick of hearing about tradesmen being ripped off by idiots that are trying to pull a fast one,its as bad as stealing in my book.

Don't be pushed around,stick up for yourself and if the legal route doesn't pay off try my other way.I can guarentee its much more effective

tilersforums.com take no responsibility for these suggestions lol.

 

[Varley]

tilersforums.com take no responsibility for these suggestions lol.

LMAO, nice touch mate

 

[pjtiler]

your never going to win with this arsehole mate
get back in there by fair meens or foul
tell the pillox you need to remove some tiles
strip the lot off
then say your booked up till the end of the year

and youll be back to finnish the job in the new year

 

[alex1963]

at some point in time we all get the customer from hell ,dealing with them usually involves heaps of stress. if you know another qualified tiler ,take them with you to the meeting or get them to inspect the job independently as this can help smooth things over with the customer, but be prepared to be critisised if the job isnt up to scratch! dont even think about ripping of tiles or snotting the bloke - you will end up in court and never get paid. be cool and be patient
every tradesman i know has at some point been done for money ,its a risk you carry when your self employed,a plasterer mate just lost $100000 due to builders going broke and i reckon i have lost about $20000 over the last 10 years

 

[Droopy]

at some point in time we all get the customer from hell ,dealing with them usually involves heaps of stress. if you know another qualified tiler ,take them with you to the meeting or get them to inspect the job independently as this can help smooth things over with the customer, but be prepared to be critisised if the job isnt up to scratch! dont even think about ripping of tiles or snotting the bloke - you will end up in court and never get paid. be cool and be patient
every tradesman i know has at some point been done for money ,its a risk you carry when your self employed,a plasterer mate just lost $100000 due to builders going broke and i reckon i have lost about $20000 over the last 10 years

I've been self employed for around 15 years and I have never been done for a single penny. <Touch wood>
A couple have tried, but changed their minds pretty damn fast.

 

[Grace'sDad]

A couple have tried, but changed their minds pretty damn fast.

WHY???!

 

[JIMBOB187]

The customer in question went into Topps today and asked loads of questions about BS and tolerance, I'm pleased to say the boy did me proud and luckily really knows his stuff. My solicitor (old customer ) informed me that I can remove the tiles to take bqack my adhesive aslong as I don't damage his property, however if he asked me to leave his property I must do so immediately or be charged with trespass.

I am seeing the customer next Monday at 6.30pm as the cheeky old so and so has gone away for a week WITH MY MONEY, I gaurantee I will be getting paid on Monday! Will let you all know.

 

[enduro]

Rapid set down his drains mate if he dosent pay you...That will teach him

 

[murf]

Sorry to hear of you'r situation. In my opinion the advise from tiler burden is exactly right. You must remain as calm and courteous as possible. This individual is a curmudgeon and he will use any means to rob you of you'r payment. Unfortunatly there are a few of those about.

 

[Droopy]

WHY???!

First one was when I was about 20. Tiled a shower room and his wife was delighted with it . She paid me as soon as I was finished, by cheque.

Later that night, about 10pm, I get a call from him saying that he is cancelling the cheque.
I asked him why, and he says because he is unhappy with the job.
So I tell him I will come out next day to fix any problems. He then says he has to leave early, at 8am, so no.
I told him that fine, I'll be there at 7, no problem.
He then says there is not anything wrong with the tiling, but his wife and to clean the floor and it took he 2 hours, so who is paying her for her time.

When I told him that she told me to leave the cleaning, he said he was still cancelling the cheque.

Fine, I said, I'll see you in the morning then.

what do you mean, I told you you can't get in tomorrow, he says.

Aye, I know. But I'm not coming to see the job, I'm coming to see you.
If you think that I am willing to walk away from 2 days wages without some sort of satisfaction, you're very mistaken.

He then said he over reacted and that he would not be cancelling the cheque, but would not be passing my name on.
This guy was a self employed Joiner, who thought because of my age, I'd be a soft touch.


The second time was about 4 years ago.
A builder my Dad works for, but this time was too busy.
I agreed to do the job, cash price and to paid Friday.
Friday came, I get a sob story about how he had not been paid by someone, can he pay next week.
I agreed to that because my Dad had worked for him a lot.
After waiting two more weeks i phoned him and he hung up on me.
So I got his house number from my Dad, phoned him again and told him I'd be down to collect my money ,or boot his balls.
Just as I was on my way down, I got a call from my Dad telling me he had phoned him, ****ting himself that I was on my way down. (this guy is about 6ft 5, I'm 5ft 7)
My dad said he would pop in and see him instead. 30 minutes later,I had my £700.
Again this guy thought i was a soft touch, probably because I fell for his sob story the first Friday.

Those are the only times I have had any problems with customers paying.

 

[Droopy]

The customer in question went into Topps today and asked loads of questions about BS and tolerance, I'm pleased to say the boy did me proud and luckily really knows his stuff. My solicitor (old customer ) informed me that I can remove the tiles to take bqack my adhesive aslong as I don't damage his property, however if he asked me to leave his property I must do so immediately or be charged with trespass.

I am seeing the customer next Monday at 6.30pm as the cheeky old so and so has gone away for a week WITH MY MONEY, I gaurantee I will be getting paid on Monday! Will let you all know.

Good stuff.

 

[eyebeetiling]

In any dispute I always try to be the bigger person staying calm while they lose their rags.

Good luck