History lessson needed from skilled Shower Installers !!!

[Cottage lady]

Hello Everybody

I need advice please from Tilers (Bathroom / Shower Installers) who were working in the years around 2007 / 2008
I am told some Installers used plywood in those days as the backer board for shower cubicles prior to tiling them out.
I have also learned that Hardie board and Wedi board were also available then and would have been better options I guess.

My precise question is this..... If plywood was used, what tanking type options were available in those days to seal the plywood against water ingress from the shower water if it got through the tiles grouting. I am advised that grouting is not "water proof " unless it is epoxy grout ... but is "water resistant".


If water did get into the plywood it would soak in and warp the wood causing further problems ... so it would surely have needed tanking / water proofing of some sort ?


Any advice about protective water proofing products for the plywood available on the open market at that time ie 2007 / 2008 and successfully used would be such a help for me to know.


It might be that experienced tilers will tell me only silly people used plywood then as it had been replaced by better products eg Wedi that skilled people used

I would be enormously grateful for a history lesson !!!

Thank you

 

[White Room]

Some builders still use ply....tanking systems have been around for a large number of years including prior 2000 but it seems some won't listen to advise regarding the systems that are available.

 

[jonnyc]

Think there were tanking systems suitable for over ply decks that many years ago.although I never used bal fibreglass rings a bell for me.think you will find there were others that could be applied over ply as well.

 

[Cottage lady]

Some builders still use ply....tanking systems have been around for a large number of years including prior 2000 but it seems some won't listen to advise regarding the systems that are available.

Thank you for such a swift response Whitebeam.

I gather from your reply that there were good tanking systems available along time ago but then as now not everyone used them. I imagine you are talking Wedi types then ?

Can you tell me what they should have used to protect the plywood from water ingress back in those days 2007 / 2008 if they insisted on using ply ?

I am glad of your experienced help

 

[Cottage lady]

Many thanks jonnyc ... I remain keen to know the names of products that Installers used to seal the ply against water ingress in 2007/2008.... any guidance much appreciated

 

[Perry]

Thank you for such a swift response Whitebeam.

I gather from your reply that there were good tanking systems available along time ago but then as now not everyone used them. I imagine you are talking Wedi types then ?

Can you tell me what they should have used to protect the plywood from water ingress back in those days 2007 / 2008 if they insisted on using ply ?

I am glad of your experienced help

That depends if they were asked to tank it. Or tile it. A lot of builders still do not tank showers now days. And a lot of trades men do not still have enough knowledge so it's hard for customers to know. Like hardi is not waterproof and still needs to be tanked.

 

[White Room]

broken link removed

This one I've used, there are many other makes available.

 

[Cottage lady]

Hello pjc

If it was a shower installation with water going all over the tiles inside the cubicle, wouldn't it be vital to "tank" or at least seal the wood against water ingress ?

 

[Chalker]

I take it from your posing, that you ate after some recompense from your shower installer back in 2007. Plywood was, and still is fitted on wall by some installers. Tanking systems have been around for quite some time, but that doesn't mean everyone knew about them, or used them.
With the Internet, people are getting more informed about good practices.

I take it that you have problems with tiles falling off and the plywood going mouldy, or splitting the layers due to water ingress.

 

[Cottage lady]

Thank you Whitebeam

Two points...

1. it says suitable for plaster board etc ... cannot see "ply" mentioned ?

2. Was this on sale in 2007/2008 to your knowledge ?

The timeframe is key to my problem and lack on any knowledge

 

[White Room]

Some still don't listen....

 

[Perry]

Hello pjc

If it was a shower installation with water going all over the tiles inside the cubicle, wouldn't it be vital to "tank" or at least seal the wood against water ingress ?

Sorry just edited my post

 

[White Room]

Thank you Whitebeam

Two points...

1. it says suitable for plaster board etc ... cannot see "ply" mentioned ?



2. Was this on sale in 2007/2008 to your knowledge ?

The timeframe is key to my problem and lack on any knowledge

It will tank ply and yes it was on sale in 2007....

 

[IHB]

What did the British Standard say back in 2007/2008?

 

[Cottage lady]

Hello Chalker and thank you for your interest

Yes we have an interesting issue here and of course no relevant knowledge. You mention "Tanking systems have been around for quite some time" ... do you mean in 2007/2008 ?

 

[Cottage lady]

Hi IHB

I hope you are not asking ME that question ??!

We need an expert to answer ....

 

[Cottage lady]

Whitebeam ... again many thanks. You clearly have a lot of past experience ... I am grateful for you passing that fact on

 

[Chalker]

Hello Chalker and thank you for your interest

Yes we have an interesting issue here and of course no relevant knowledge. You mention "Tanking systems have been around for quite some time" ... do you mean in 2007/2008 ?

To be honest, a tanking kit will only stop the water from causing damage to the substrate behind the tiles.it shouldn't be leaking in the first place.
I have removed many bathrooms fitted out with ply or plasterboard that have not leaked or caused any damage.
PA builder I do plumbing for will only fit ply to showers. Even though I tell him there are better products out there. But he won't listen, as up to now he has not had any problems because the tiler he uses ( not me) does a good job, so it does not leak!

 

[Martyn Leeds]

Give and take and all that..

I'd like to know exactly why the specific question??


Even though I can guess exactly why....

 

[One Day]

It's starting legal....!

 

[Cottage lady]

Chalker ... you are hitting another nail on the head tonight ... the tiling was not good and water seeped in to the ply that had only been treated with PVA or SBR

What is you reaction to that then ?

 

[jonnyc]

Why not tell us what your bathroom fitters actually did.it may be that they used an adhesive that was deemed suitable at that time on a ply substrate.you seem to trying to prove what they did was wrong without asking if what they did may have been ok first.their method may not have been the best available but it may have been acceptable st

 

[Chalker]

Chalker ... you are hitting another nail on the head tonight ... the tiling was not good and water seeped in to the ply that had only been treated with PVA or SBR

What is you reaction to that then ?

my reaction would be. It's lasted 7 years so its out of guarantee. This can't have suddenly happened. Did you notice any signs in the past 7 years? Did you give the installer chance to rectify when first noticed.
also this hasn't happened in the last few days so you, unfortunately should take a part of the blame. Was there any grout missing, any Silicon that needed replacing.or is this a new house that has had some natural settlement.
could you post some pics? or say exactly what has happened so a constructive reply can be sought . Otherwise we are just guessing.

 

[Spud]

The British standard was updated in 2009 and I believe from then it was recommended that all new build wet areas should be tanked ,tanking products have been available for over 20 years

 

[Old Mod]

Didn't we have a thread the other day about someone being asked to provide a report on bad workmanship?
And if I'm not mistaken, it was stated quite categorically that we were not qualified enough to make such a statement and that it would not be accepted in a legal capacity!

 

[White Room]

Thats right Marc, experience does'nt seem to count for anything but a shed load of qualifications does....

 

[Perry]

I have been a expert witness in a court case for someone that came on here and was treated as one by the judge. And my report was the sole reason for winning the case.

 

[The D]

i have not read the full thread but tiling on to ply is not good having said that the definition of tiling is to provide a water proof and reasonably flat surface covering.

 

[Cottage lady]

Thank you Gary

This was all I was asking really .... certainly not seeking any legal advice here !
I am grateful for all the opinions received .... my thanks to you all.

 

[Old Mod]

This was all I was asking really .... certainly not seeking any legal advice here !
I am grateful for all the opinions received .... my thanks to you all.

It wasn't suggested that you were seeking legal advice at all, as well you know! My objection is in which manor you chose to gather your information! You been ambiguous at best with the information supplied in the hope, it would certainly appear, to help you take action against another party! Personally for me that is an insult to my intelligence and underhand! It appears from MY perspective that you asking us to help you bring a case against some work carried out some 6-7yrs ago without relaying all the relevant information so that we can decide for ourselves whether or not it is in fact poor workmanship! Apart from the fact that you could have suffered an earthquake in your area causing subsidence in your surrounding district! Excessive example? Yes of course! But it relays my objection to this method of gleaning information. Perhaps if you had been upfront with your problem initially it wouldn't have attracted such a cynical view from some members! And I know for sure you would have collected the information you required without alienating decent members of a forum who do their level best to help!

 

[Deleted member 9966]

Tanking kits were certainly available in 2009/2010 when I refurbished my en-suite shower room, and from what I recall, these kits and other water repelling boards like Wedi and Hardie were available quite readily if you knew where to find them and what you were looking for, and had been around for some time.

My best suggestion would be to contact Mapei who do a paint-on type tanking kit, as well as a wallpaper type roll kit, and perhaps Wedi and James Hardie and ask them exactly when their tanking products hit the shelves in the UK.

But it does all come down to knowing that these products were around back then, and that your installer knew what they were and the merits of having them.

I had a paint-on kit for my shower room because the house-builder had done a particularly poor job at installing the shower area and frequently I ended up with puddles of water in the lounge below. Once bitten, twice shy.