How can i improve my preparation

[Plumb_know]

Hi Everyone,

Plumber by trade but do a lot of bathroom refurbishments, have hired tilers in the past with mixed experiences.

I have not been impressed with the last few tilers and have started doing smaller jobs myself and have enjoyed it. I am not sure if i want to do tilling all the time as like the plumbing work more but would like to learn just so i have a better understanding & to try and provide good preparation for the tilers i do use so they can obtain good results.

I see a lot of people plaster all the walls before tilling a bathroom but i have never done this due to the time needed before you can tile (usually i am redoing the only bathroom in the house so 2weeks without a shower would not go down to well). Is there a better product to use to skim or flatten a wall rather than standard plaster which will allow for tilling say 2 days later?

I would usually dot & dab a wall if possible but some bathrooms i am working with millimetres just to get things to fit in the room.


with regards to walls on stud i usually replace/repair with moisture plasterboard then tank with a mapie type tanking kit, i do this around baths & showers.

Floors i usually lay structural ply then use schluter matting over the top (orange one with grooves)

Does this prep sound reasonable to you and what would you recommend improving?

Also as read on plastering forum never seal with PVA only a tilling primer .

Look forward to you responses & advice.

Thanks

 

[Old Mod]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Well, a shower should be left at least a fortnight before being used anyway to be honest, give everything half a chance to cure, especially over a waterproof background such as tanking, but I do appreciate your concerns.
There are specific repair mortars on the market like Ardex AM100 to repair walls and it fast drying.
Plaster is about the worst substrate to tile on, it allows you only 20kgs per m2 of Tiles, porcelain weighs on average 24kgs per m2 without the 4kgs of adhesive and grout. Far better off with tanked plasterboard in truth over plaster, that allows 32kgs per m2.
But tile backer boards should be your first choice. Dot and dabbed with tile adhesive and mechanically fixed Thro the dabs following day. Tile boards range from around 50-200kgs per m2
Tanking kits are required in wet areas now as per BS5385.

You would be better off overboarding the ply with a tile backer board, stick with adhesive and again add mechanical fixings.
If using stone, add a decoupler like ditra or a 1mm antifracture mat.
Porcelain will go straight over backer board as long as there is no deflection in the floor (up & down movement) its deflection that will normally cause failures.
Or you can remove floor completely and use either 22mm no more ply or Gyproc’s GIFA board, these are both structural and you can lay to them direct.
BE SURE TO READ INSTRUCTIONS ON TILING CAREFULLY.
They require the correct type of priming, but once done make excellent substrates with minimal build up!

Also

 

[Waluigi]

Provided you’re not using ultra heavy tiles, I usually find most of your average domestic bathrooms lend themselves best to dot and dab P/board and tanking in wet areas. I find that dot and dabbing is the quickest and easiest way to get things millimetre perfect. By the way, if you can, ditch the Mapei kit and try out the Tilemaster kit. It’s much better IMHO.

 

[Plumb_know]

thanks for your help everyone, will look into the products you have specified.

also with the backboards do you need to use 12mm or as they are better can you reduce this to 6mm??

thanks

 

[Old Mod]

6mm board is used almost exclusively for overboarding any existing board, not to stud.
12.5 or similar can go to studs at 300. 20mm boards for 400mm centres.

 

[Simon Dale]

Agree with @3_fall Customers should not skimp on good prep. Its not cheap anymore and plaster defo no no no

 

[Flintstone]

A topic close to my heart today after having to walk away from a job I was assured would be prepared right, by a plumber and me only to find it had no prep at all. It’s good to see you care about the prep for tiling. You can stick on 6 or 10 or 12mm foam core tile backer boards over the mess on the walls, with powdered tile adhesive then add fixings the next day, and these are water proof.

 

[Waluigi]

What we need is a tile backer board that cuts as easily as a foam board, is waterproof like a foam board yet comes in decent sizes. Even 1800 x 900 would be good but the board needs to have a bit more rigidity than the foam and must be able to be dabbed onto the wall with dry wall adhesive.

Hopefully I’m not asking for too much......

 

[WetSaw]

Have you never heard of Kerdi board?

 

[WetSaw]

 

[Waluigi]

Yes, I’ve used it. No different to any other foam board IMO

 

[Albert]

Has anybody tried this
https://www.*****************/products/bal-board/

 

[Flintstone]

I’ve seen it at bal HQ on a training day, basically another version of hardie backer I think. But cuts easier.

 

[Waluigi]

“Water and Mould resistant”

Waterproof please if it’s on walls. Otherwise it’s pointless.

 

[Albert]

“Water and Mould resistant”

Waterproof please if it’s on walls. Otherwise it’s pointless.

Do you know of a waterproof board?
Water-Resistant Or Waterproof | Schlüter-Systems - http://www.schluter.co.uk/water-resistant-or-waterproof.aspx

 

[Waluigi]

All foam boards are waterproof.

The likes of Hardiebacker, Aquapanel and the new Bal board, it seems aren’t waterproof.

ETAG 022 Part 1 says that all new builds must have waterproof boards in showers, or tanked. The Bal board is pointless IMHO. Develop a decent waterproof board instead, please

 

[Albert]

The inner core of boards such as Wedi are waterproof i believe,
but the face is coated with cement which is not.
As this is the surface that the tiles are stuck to it can degenerate.

 

[Waluigi]

Can it?

I’ve never seen it.

You’ve got Orbrey, Wedi, Dukkaboard, Jackoboard, Marmox, all in the form of wet room formers that don’t require tanking on the face of the board.

All are considered ‘waterproof’

 

[Flintstone]

Kerdi board is the only board that is water proof in the core and on the face

 

[Waluigi]

Good info, I didn’t know that.

 

[Old Mod]

Kerdi board is the only board that is water proof in the core and on the face

I’d be a little cautious with that statement Andy. The membrane covering is definitely waterproof.
The core however, I’m not sure about.
There was a debate recently over this very subject. There were images of kerdi Board soaking up water thro capillary action, it was very clear to see.
I think from memory, please don’t quote, because I’m only 70% sure, but I think the core is the same as cement boards as in it is uneffected by moisture.
Don’t start splitting hairs. I’m just using loose general terms.
Im sorry but I can not remember schluters response on the subject.
I’ll dig some more, see what I can find out.

 

[Waluigi]

The point I was originally trying to make was that the foam boards as a whole are waterproof. The other boards I mentioned are not.

Whether some sections of the boards aren’t waterproof is irrelevant to me because the board as a whole is waterproof.

I still think a new type of board is needed. Something that is 900mm Wide would be a start.

 

[Qwerty]

@Schlüter-Systems Ltd ... any ideas ?????

 

[Old Mod]

I asked the question to a colleague, and this was a conversation he had with a Schluter rep earlier this evening.

My colleague asked.,,,,


Schluter Rep .......

 

[Waluigi]

Im wondering if Schluter have their board in one of those sealed liquid vessels that HB have to prove it doesn’t break down. The same goes for the foam boards.

I’d imagine that in reality it doesn’t really matter when used on walls as they are unlikely to get that wet.

It’s intersting to hear that the foam boards cement coating will break down. I’m going to leave a piece of Orbrey in a tray of water to see what happens and shall report back.

 

[Albert]

Im wondering if Schluter have their board in one of those sealed liquid vessels that HB have to prove it doesn’t break down. The same goes for the foam boards.

I’d imagine that in reality it doesn’t really matter when used on walls as they are unlikely to get that wet.

It’s intersting to hear that the foam boards cement coating will break down. I’m going to leave a piece of Orbrey in a tray of water to see what happens and shall report back.

What i said was the cement coating CAN degrade

 

[Qwerty]

I’m going to leave a piece of Orbrey in a tray of water to see what happens and shall report back.

Dont forget to weigh it down to keep it submerged. Its floatier than a floaty float on a float ride!

 

[Flintstone]

I do know of a board that Is totally waterproof inside, outside everything about it

 

[WetSaw]

I do know of a board that Is totally waterproof inside, outside everything about it

Surf board?

 

[Old Mod]

I do know of a board that Is totally waterproof inside, outside everything about it

Well Andrew?