Impregnator Sealants

[GazTech]

It is as mis-conception that highly polished tiles,such as granite,marble & porcelain don't need to be sealed,THEY DO! During the process of polishing there are microscopic holes exposed in the surface of such tiles.Like the pores in our skin they have a 'well' like a folicle underneath,which in given time will fill with dirt.When it does a dark polished tile will lose its shine,and a lighter coloured tile will become sullen & grubby.A good impregnator sealer will fill the 'wells' stopping the grub build up.Approx £15 per 20 metres sq to impregnate any natural polished tile,well what would you do?

 

[wivers]

The job i just finished had polished granite floor tiles black 30 x 30 from Topps. They bought the Fila sealer with it. The guy said he wanted to seal them himself. He sealed them and left them for me to wipe off. Bloody stuff was stuck on like glue. Took me about 10 minutes a tile to buff i kid you not!

 

[GazTech]

NOOOOOO!don't let customers do your job for you,they'll balls it up and make life hard for you.The sealer could have been applied long after you'd grouted and been away wages in hand.

 

[DavidL]

Well Gaz @ Tops I would like to know where you get your info from because your posting is complete and utter rubbish. An impregnating sealer has one use - and that is to be absorbed by the stone to help reduce its porosity. To say that it helps keep the stone clean or even to suggest that it in some way protects the polished stone from becoming damaged is simply wrong.

FYI I have been into Topps on several occasions and have had this discussion with the salesmen there - it seems you have been taught by the sellers of sealers hence your recommendation to seal everything no matter what??

 

[grumpygrouter]

Well Gaz @ Tops I would like to know where you get your info from because your posting is complete and utter rubbish. An impregnating sealer has one use - and that is to be absorbed by the stone to help reduce its porosity. To say that it helps keep the stone clean or even to suggest that it in some way protects the polished stone from becoming damaged is simply wrong.

FYI I have been into Topps on several occasions and have had this discussion with the salesmen there - it seems you have been taught by the sellers of sealers hence your recommendation to seal everything no matter what??

Was it you that made the anonymous post about polished stone NOT requiring sealing? If so it would be useful to us all if you could make reference to your inofrmation source so that we can investigate and judge for ourselves. I was taught during my training that polishing DOES expose microscopic holes, and to me this seems logical (I am not a retailer). If this is not actually the case it would be good to know why. Please gives us some back up on your info.

Grumpy

 

[DavidL]

Was it you that made the anonymous post about polished stone NOT requiring sealing?

Yes that was me - I have since registered and will get round to introducing myself in the appropriate forum later.

My philosophy on sealing is quite simple - assess the stone and its intended location and then if it is potentially likely to become stained and the stone is able to absorb a sealer, then seal the stone. A highly porous limestone being used on a kitchen floor is going to be exposed to liquid spills which could cause staining, so the correct application of a quality impregnator is sensible. On the other hand a highly polished marble floor in a conservatory or reception area has little chance of staining and therefore would not benefit from sealing - in fact sealing may cause problems due to incorrevt application!!

You may think that it is wise to seal all kitchen worktops - but if you do a test and spill some water on a sample piece of, say, Star Galaxy (not a true granite by the way?!) you will find the stone does not darken when you wipe up the water meaning that it has not absorbed any of it. Therefore if the stone does not allow water through how is a sealer going to penetrate?

Tilers tell me that sealing helps them clean up the grout - well I will not argue that point except to say that in terms of the actual use of an impregnator its job is to aid stain prevention and not facilitiate grout clean up.

I run a stone restoration business and have done for over 5 years. I have lost count of the number of floors I have restored to new - and this is the first I have heard of polishing 'exposing' microscopic holes!! The polishing process is a 'smoothing' process where you are in fact grinding out the stone to leave it ultra smooth such that it reflects light. The only exception is travertine which is full of holes that may become exposed during the polishing process. For Gaz@Topps to say that these holes DO appear and they do fill with dirt and this can be prevented by sealing is quite simply a misrepresentation to people buying and using stone

It is important that we in the stone industry look after our customers as these will hopefully bring us more customers. I have had to convince so many people that their marble floor isn't shiny because of wear and tear - even though it was sealed!

I will contribute to this forum should any of you require any particular help on stone restoration or maintenance. I have no products to sell and I am so busy in my day to day stuff I really don't need tany extra work and so my motives are honest.

 

[DHTiling]

I agree with your theory on water based sealers but if i install a polished stone into kitchens or areas subject to acidic staining then i use a solvent based penetrating sealer as this "will"... seal polished stone thus helping in the prevention of staining...any stone be it polished or not will in time require a good cleaning to bring it back to it's original lustre....dave...

 

[GazLC81]

Oooooh Handbags! lol

Can I just ask.... or rather confirm what I have already read. GLAZED porcelain DOESN'T need sealing???

Gaz

PS DavidL..... lighten up mate!

 

[DHTiling]

Oooooh Handbags! lol

PS DavidL..... lighten up mate!

Totaly agree.........dave..

 

[McP77]

May as well put my happeth in then.

As I've posted on the other thread when porcelain is polished it exposes tiny holes. I don't know about marble etc so can't comment.

I don't believe that sealing a polished tile helps it to retain its shine. I think that wear and tear takes the polish off, and I suspect also takes the sealer out as the whole lot has simply worn away. I do however, think that a polished tile MAY benefit from being sealed to aid in stain prevention.

An impregnating sealer is used to reduce porosity. I agree. For that reason I would argue that it does help to keep the stone clean. If the contaminate cannot get into the stone as quickly due to reduced porosity then it gives more chance to clean the contaminant - therefore helping to keep it out of the stone.

As for cleaning up grout - same response. If the stone isn't as porous then less chance of grout staining.

And final thought - if a stone won't accept a sealant then all you're doing is wasting sealant, time and money. If it will accept a sealant then it is getting some benefit.

 

[DavidL]

The sealer debate is one that I have had on many occasions and I apologise for the tone of my original posting.

I will simply add that I have re-finished numerous stone floors and not sealed them - and I have had NO instances of callbacks to remove stains. I even have a slab of marble on my kitchen worktop that gets seriously abused by all sorts of foods and liquids and this is not stained either, although it is as dull as dishwater!!

Sealers are expensive, and I believe many are sold to customers by playing on their fears. The majority of floors that I attend to that are in need of 'cleaning' actually need refinishing, that is a diamond hone and repolish.

The industry is in need of more education from knowledgeable sources and not from those with a vested interest in selling specific products. It is a shame that those buying stone in the first instance are usually given very bad advice leading to a bad experience with stone.

 

[GazTech]

Firstly welcome to the forum David,I have taken it upon myself on this forum to impart my 25yrs knowledge in tiling(on a no fee basis) to educate new tilers and the public alike.I have found that people do tend to hang on my every word,and I would be a fool to post when asked that no impregnator sealant is required for polished porcelain,granite and marble.When speaking to manufacturers of these natural tiles,they always endorse sealants and regular maitenance products,to prolong the time where your skills in diamond grinding and honing are required.If there were no sealants available I know it would suit you sir,but its a belt and braces response to the people who view my threads.Perhaps David if you had used an impregnator sealant on your worktops,then maybe now they would't be as dull as dishwater! It's ok for you because you can diamond hone and polish it back up,not everyone had easy access to those type of machines.Note to anyone viewing this thread,if you buy polished porcelain,marble or granite,seek the advice of the manufacturer regarding sealing and maintenance.

 

[faithhealer]

Good thread gentlemen, best (serious )debate for ages!

 

[DavidL]

Gaz

Thanks for the welcome, and I hope our debates are healthy.

David if you had used an impregnator sealant on your worktops,then maybe now they would't be as dull as dishwater!

- on this issue readers of this thread should be aware that the stone is dull due to etching from acidic foods and liquids, and there is not a sealer out there that will prevent this! In fact this raises a very good point in that people often believe that their stone is stained when it is in fact etched - the difference can be seen in that an etch is lighter than the polished stone and a stain is ALWAYS darker.

Note to anyone viewing this thread,if you buy polished porcelain,marble or granite,seek the advice of the manufacturer regarding sealing and maintenance.

Also why not seek the advice of those of us who spend our working lives putting right the problems caused by misinformation, poor installation, incorrect sealing etc......

 

[GazTech]

Also why not seek the advice of those of us who spend our working lives putting right the problems caused by misinformation, poor installation, incorrect sealing etc......

I would love to do your job David,it must be very satifying,taking grubby stone and restoring it,I bet peole are amazed at how bonny it is under all that muck,thanks again for the debate,lets never stop learning