Lowering job spec to get work??

[mattle40]

Hi all
Basically I get a lot of my work thru a plumber friend of mine, so basically I'm sub contracting to him
When he asks for my price I go spec the job etc
But he has his own ways and that's that, he just wants me to stick tiles to the wall
Generally he just wants to board a room out, get it skimmed, first fix plumbing then pass it on to me to tile, he's not interested in tanking etc or even over boarding correctly as he sees this to be his part of the job and doesn't want to change his methods
(9mm ply at best by the way)
I'm just not comfortable doing these jobs but it's hard to decline work

(Iv never tiled any floors for him by the way because of the 9mm ply)

Any advice welcomed

 

[Gazzer]

If he wants to lower costs why is he skimming plasterboards?

 

[John Benton]

I used to subby for a plumber who was always wanting me to cut costs. In the end I had enough because I wouldn't compromise my side of the job. You can bet if I had and the tiles failed it would be me going back and nit him so we parted company. There are plenty of good plumbers who want the job doing properly. I would start ringing round and asking plumbers if they have a tiler they recommend, sub work to etc and take it from there.

 

[mattle40]

I don't think it's a cost thing he's just stuck in his ways, a lot of the time I dnt even see the job until after the skim and overboard
It's as though tiling wasn't the original plan a lot of the time
Bit it's hard to talk to him about it without undermining his knowledge
He's gud at what he does but he's no tiler if you get me
And while he's getting me jobs I dnt want to get into it
Basically I want the work, who doesn't but I want to do it my way
But this always ends in awkward conversations
You think I should just say no to these jobs and save a friendship
Or persist its my way or the highway kinda thing??

 

[John Benton]

If it's not a cost thing then you need to point him in the direction of this forum very subtly so that he can learn from the guys on here as to how the jobs should be done properly.

Tell him you're and member on here and the advice is given to both pro's and diy'ers.

 

[mattle40]

Yea cheers for the input guys, I agree I definatley need to do that, but that is kinda the tricky thing, without making out I think he doesn't know what he's doing...
Always hard working with/for friends

 

[kilty55]

hello,whats the agreement on material cost etc on these jobs? is it just the floors hes not prepping if so add into your costs and re sheet them ..? just dont tell him lol

 

[kilty55]

been there so many times mattle with plumbers its a frustrating situation

 

[mattle40]

hello,whats the agreement on material cost etc on these jobs? is it just the floors hes not prepping if so add into your costs and re sheet them ..? just dont tell him lol

I give him a price for my labour and materials etc but he likes me to justify the materials and break the job down so he knows when he can get back in for the second fix
And when say £100 quid is for kerdi matting for example he just says to leave it out and he'll take the hit if it fails etc
It just doesn't sit right with me

 

[kilty55]

how much work does he give you mattle? and do you also give him work?

 

[mattle40]

how much work does he give you mattle? and do you also give him work?

He offers a lot to be fair although I only take a little bit due to what we can agree on etc and working around my own stuff, he's a lot more established than I am so I have got him work in the past but not nearly as much

 

[kilty55]

ask him to not sheet the floor with his 9mm ply and you sheet it with cement boards instead?

or are the walls bad also?

 

[Sanke]

Hi Mattie

My main business is plumbing & I have experience of several tilers. The key is to have a good relationship "working together" Perhaps you could attend site earlier to see what he is doing & get him to be on site when you are there. That way he can see how what he does affects you.
Also I would try & get a relationship with some other local plumbers so that you are less dependant on him

 

[mattle40]

Ye that's a place to start, spose I can just tell him to do that on all jobs regardless of weather or not he gets me to tile it
But yes that just one of many problems
Walls are worst I think to be honest he likes to get them skimmed because generally the customer expects it anyway and it's another area he can get money and when iv suggested swapping skimming for tanking he doesn't want to get involved with it
Infact the more I put on here and vent a little the more I think it's just not worth the hassle lol

 

[John Benton]

Ye that's a place to start, spose I can just tell him to do that on all jobs regardless of weather or not he gets me to tile it
But yes that just one of many problems
Walls are worst I think to be honest he likes to get them skimmed because generally the customer expects it anyway and it's another area he can get money and when iv suggested swapping skimming for tanking he doesn't want to get involved with it
Infact the more I put on here and vent a little the more I think it's just not worth the hassle lol

Unfortunately he's looking out for himself and to gain out of each job as much as he can. He probably feels that he's doing his bit by passing the tiling on to you.

Just a quick question, is he VAT registered?

 

[mattle40]

Yes he is vat registered, I'm not tho, why do you ask?

 

[John Benton]

Yes he is vat registered, I'm not tho, why do you ask?

Well the cost of your work will have an added 20% on the customers bill as you are not charging them direct. Do you actually know what he charges as a %age for himself on top of your bill as well. If you charge him say £500 for a job then he may add 10% making it £550 + VAT, totalling £660. The customer is then paying £160 over what you would charge directly.

 

[Sanke]

Surely as a contractor / subcontractor he should be paying his subs via the CIS deducting the tax. To avoid this additional burden you could suggest you invoice the clients seperately ?

 

[mattle40]

I'd not actually thought of it that way to be honest, definatly puts a different spin on things tho..

 

[CJ]

Ask yourself a question Mattel..........................would he accept the blame if something went really wrong, as in, heavy weight tiles crashing down and breaking something or someone.

Would he drop you like a bad smell if push comes to shove.

These stuck in the past merchants are the worlds worst, they will not accept that things have changed, and they know best........when we all no otherwise.

If he will not accept change..............tell him to take a hike, before it costs YOU

 

[mattle40]

Generally if he gets paid cash so do I, otherwise it's bank transfer so I assume it's all above board, although probably not the cash jobs..

 

[mattle40]

Ask yourself a question Mattel..........................would he accept the blame if something went really wrong, as in, heavy weight tiles crashing down and breaking something or someone.

Would he drop you like a bad smell if push comes to shove.

These stuck in the past merchants are the worlds worst, they will not accept that things have changed, and they know best........when we all no otherwise.

If he will not accept change..............tell him to take a hike, before it costs YOU

Seems very sound advice thanks

Think I'm heading in this direction

 

[John Benton]

I'd not actually thought of it that way to be honest, definatly puts a different spin on things tho..

That's what was happening in my previous post and he kept asking me to drop my price to get the job. As he was dealing directly with the customer I've no idea what he was charging and whether asking me to drop my price was just to go straight in his pocket, I suspect so.

You have no control over what happens and unfortunately it's in his hands. He holds the cards, so it's important that you make yourself known to other plumbers/ tradesmen that you meet on jobs. I always hand my card out to every trade I meet on jobs, and ask for theirs, and also leave a few cards with customers.

 

[mattle40]

That's what was happening in my previous post and he kept asking me to drop my price to get the job. As he was dealing directly with the customer I've no idea what he was charging and whether asking me to drop my price was just to go straight in his pocket, I suspect so.

You have no control over what happens and unfortunately it's in his hands. He holds the cards, so it's important that you make yourself known to other plumbers/ tradesmen that you meet on jobs. I always hand my card out to every trade I meet on jobs, and ask for theirs, and also leave a few cards with customers.

Cheers John,
I'm not fully self employed yet, was going to take the jump before Christmas but the work just wasn't there.. I'm just getting the hankering again but this is my biggest worry in doing so as until I'm more established I'll mostly be subbing and I'm not really comfortable with the prospect of having to justify the correct methods every job I come across..
And worry il end up lowering my standards to keep in work
I'm pretty much part time at the minute on the books for a tile shop I'd rather not name and self employed the rest if that makes sense
But that seems sound advice thank you

 

[John Benton]

Where are you based? I noticed you are Leeds!

 

[mattle40]

Yes I'm in Bramley ls13, what about yourself?

 

[John Benton]

Between Leeds and Wakefield

It's not the same plumber I know....haha

 

[mattle40]

Lol just one of many eh!

 

[John Benton]

Strangely enough he's not working for himself anymore. He'd charge 1k for labour and materials on a straight bathroom swap + the cost of the sanitaryware. No wonder he wanted me to lower my prices.

 

[mattle40]

So that's strip out
First fix
Tile prep
Tile
second fix
For £1k inc materials????
So you got paid out of that too?

 

[mattle40]

Or is that without the tiling sorry??