Need advice -bad professional job?

[David Jatt]

Hi

I'm after some advice. A professional tiler has laid original style victorian tiles in my hallway. I have concerns that some of the work is below standard. Most importantly the border pattern changes abruptly in going around the corner (he seems to have improvised) and is a bit of an eyesore. Also, quite a few tiles are scuffed or chipped (although only slightly) and some tiles are mis-cut around the skirting boards. I have enclosed some pictures for example.

Unfortunately I have paid for this already and it was completed a few weeks ago. I thought at the time it was below par but tried to convince myself that it wasnt that bad. I have asked him to come round and sort out grouting issues /scuffs which he says he is going to do. I haven't mentioned the lay out problem.

I just need some advice if i'm being too pernickety or whether I'm justified in raising these issues?

Advice much appreciated.

 

[WetSaw]

I'm sure the guys on here that do geometrics will give you the answer and as far as I can see it won't be good news. What is going on with that corner is definitely wrong.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

A picture of the whole floor area would show the setting out better, however picture 1 shows a lack of planning and yes improvising.
Was it a fix only costing he provided or did he specify the tile quantities because by only using a 25mm strip on the outside of the border it limits the options available.
The present Original Style tiles are not of the quality of old (now made in the EU) and certain blemishes are meant to be acceptable, but the cut edges should be better than shown. Not sure why you have 45* cuts to the skirting and those could be a lot tighter.
He may be a professional tiler in the respect you paid him however not a specialist in geometric installation.

 

[WetSaw]

Good point TJ, I'd seen the cuts weren't that great to the skirting but where's the border is the real question.

 

[One Day]

Well before the standard anyone should expect of a geo floor. Sorry to say that your payment indicates acceptance so you're on a bad footing really. The border shows clearly he's inexperienced and the poor cuts show his eye for detail (lack of) also shows he doesn't have the skills required for geo work.

 

[andy8758]

Actually, I have seen worse mistakes on original Victorian geometric floors. Although, for a modern geometric - its pants.

The design looks real "Heath-Robinsonish" - border tiles matching main design? They should be a complimentary but contrasting design. It should be designed so that the outer border tile takes up the inconsistencies of the room. Closest to traditional geometric design is the old black and white checkerboard design, but that grey/black and white simply doesn't work for me. If pressed to replicate that design, I would have gone for the next size down in the border square tiles, to give more room for the outer edge tile. That would probably have made the dog leg corner easier to get right.

The border around that corner is wrongly set out, the tile "damage" is unfortunately consistent with Original Style supplied tiles, the finishing is sloppy at the skirting, the grout gap is less than recommended by Original Style, but the finished floor does look flat. I wonder if that is an otherwise capable tilers first attempt at replicating a geometric floor?

 

[Andy Allen]

I'm at a loss as to why you would pay for a job your not happy with then moan about it afterwards ...??

 

[David Jatt]

Thanks for the responses.

In response to Andy above, I tried to convince myself that it looked ok however more and more people commented on it and it then dawned on me that the problems could (possibly) have been avoided. I am not a tiler and have very little DIY experience, hence why I am asking advice as to whether I have a valid complaint or being unrealistic. Bottom line is I felt that the work has been done, and was not a botch job, so I paid. Maybe that was naive, I dont know.

My conclusion on the work is that although its a difficult corner, the awkwardness could have been avoided by better planning. Also there are aspects of the tile cutting which could have been done better.

If it helps, below are a couple of further pictures, one shows the whole room. As you see, the further away you are the less bad it looks. Could the awkward corner really have been avoided? From my perspective I think that it could have been - by getting rid of the back to back squares in the corners and just continuing with the diamonds in the border. Perhaps this would have left an awkward narrow gap along the wall?

Anyway, I suppose what I need to establish is whether anything can be done to rectify and whether I should be insisting on this? The tiler is coming back next week so I need to be clear what I expect.

It cost me 2K all in all!

many thanks!

Ps - ignore the bad paintwork on the walls - thats the next job (and will be done properly!)

 

[WetSaw]

Is there a particular reason why the border doesn't go all the way around?

 

[Bill]

Is there a particular reason why the border doesn't go all the way around?

cost?

 

[David Jatt]

The tiler said no need for border on one side, probably because the hall is narrow (in hindsight there maybe should have been some sort of narrow border i.e one of the narrow grey tiles) but I can live with that aspect. I think he can address the chipped tiles and bad cuts at the skirting no problem, but my main worry is how to sort the messy corner, if at all possible.

 

[Bill]

The tiler said no need for border on one side, probably because the hall is narrow (in hindsight there maybe should have been some sort of narrow border i.e one of the narrow grey tiles) but I can live with that aspect. I think he can address the chipped tiles and bad cuts at the skirting no problem, but my main worry is how to sort the messy corner, if at all possible.

to be fair, the tiles are the wrong size for such a narrow passage. With smaller tiles, you could easily have achieved an all around border effect.

 

[David Jatt]

to be fair, the tiles are the wrong size for such a narrow passage. With smaller tiles, you coul

to be fair, the tiles are the wrong size for such a narrow passage. With smaller tiles, you could easily have achieved an all around border effect.

d easily have achieved an all around border effect.

I've had a brainwave. Played around with some spare tiles and it seems to me that this option could be taken (the alternate colour scheme becomes out of whack so they will also need to be changed):

I will ask him back, say im not happy with the corner he did and ask him to implement the above. That seems reasonable doesnt it?

Also, should i insist that all chipped tiles are replaced? What about the tiles next to the skirting. Is it practical to ask for a border there now? or just ask him to replace all tiles that arent straight?

I'm not sure what level of perfection I should be asking for?

 

[Old Mod]

The reason the border doesn't go around the stairs is because it's not meant to.
True Victorian layouts effectively have the actual room tiled with a border and then the stairs are sat on top.
So that part of the border appears to disappear into the staircase.
In that respect it's correct.

 

[Old Mod]

Oh ok I missed the bit where you explained the reason for no border. Haha
Well it's done correctly by mistake haha
It's just the modern take, and generally what clients want these days, is for the border to be visible everywhere.

 

[WetSaw]

Bloody Victorians, messing with my OCD! It may be correct but it just looks wrong to me and I wouldn't have it in my house because I'd have to close my eyes every time I walked on it..

 

[Time's Ran Out]

As above with reference to the border, the staircase was usually put over the hallway floor in Victorian properties, it's just that this border design is too wide with the tile size and not enough outside border tile to cope with the discrepancies in the walls.
Your solution to the corner looks like a solution and he should be able to redo it to your satisfaction.

 

[andy8758]

Take a look at Original Styles gallery:

Victorian Floor Tile Gallery - https://www.originalstyle.com/victorian-floor-tiles/gallery/

What you should have had was an Oxford pattern with a Kingsley border (adapted for your colour choices). Note how they deal with corners in the gallery photo, and also note the border squares are smaller, hence it works in the gallery hallway.

Its worth browsing the website further and using it will help you to argue to your tiler that he must redo the parts you are unsatisfied with.

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[David Jatt]

Thanks for the advice everyone, much appreciated. I will keep you updated as to how this progresses and hopefully resolves.

 

[Flintstone]

It isn't a terrible job, just a few bits that could have been done better, if he comes and does them that's great, if not, you don't have much you can do about it.

 

[David Jatt]

It isn't a terrible job, just a few bits that could have been done better, if he comes and does them that's great, if not, you don't have much you can do about it.

The corner shows unacceptable planning for a Victorian geometric layout. The skirting and chips/scuffs to cut tiles (theres about 20) is below what would be expected from a professional. I'm sure that another professional or surveyor would confirm that in a report for a couple hundred quid. Worst case scenario I'd get someone else to repair the work and charge it back

 

[Andy Allen]

Trouble is by paying the man you have excepted the substandard work not sure how that would pan out in court....to get a proper survey done by the TA will cost thousands not hundreds.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

If he didn't supply the tiles, you paid him, and the tiles were chipped after he finished the job - then you've no recourse!
As I earlier stated, blemishes in these tiles are common, sometimes not showing up while fixing. The tile choice was yours and again, not the best for the area involved. The way the border is finished is a matter of opinion, there are Tilers who use 'closures' in borders and indeed the OS catalogue itself is full of them!
So reflect on your situation and take the discussion route first.
Just my opinion of course.

 

[David Jatt]

thanks for that. Of course I want to (and hopefully will) avoid dispute, I was just assessing a worst case scenario. None of the tiles have been chipped after fitting -I've barely walked on them. They are chipped or scuffed as a result of the cutting. Most are like in the picture below some better some worse.

I hear what you say about the quality of the tiles but they shouldn't chip even after fitting - they are meant to be hard wearing tiles suitable for walkways - but that wouldn't be a tiller's fault as you say.

Regarding the border, I don't really accept that the corner as installed can be justified as a matter of opinion. Its out of sync with the rest of the geometric design - you only have to look at how the other corners have been done.

 

[MW Smith Ceramics]

Hi

I'm after some advice. A professional tiler has laid original style victorian tiles in my hallway. I have concerns that some of the work is below standard. Most importantly the border pattern changes abruptly in going around the corner (he seems to have improvised) and is a bit of an eyesore. Also, quite a few tiles are scuffed or chipped (although only slightly) and some tiles are mis-cut around the skirting boards. I have enclosed some pictures for example.

Unfortunately I have paid for this already and it was completed a few weeks ago. I thought at the time it was below par but tried to convince myself that it wasnt that bad. I have asked him to come round and sort out grouting issues /scuffs which he says he is going to do. I haven't mentioned the lay out problem.

I just need some advice if i'm being too pernickety or whether I'm justified in raising these issues?

Advice much appreciated.
View attachment 85051 View attachment 85053 View attachment 85055 View attachment 85056

That's poor workmanship I'm afraid.....

 

[bsc ceramics]

would have been better to start from the dog leg corner and gone away from it both ways and made any adjustments at the front door with the fill in tiles also think the border tiles are to big which makes it hard to make adjustments but the cuts are not great are they...