Polypipe Overlay Wet Ufh.

[Spare Tool]

Me n Craig went to look at a 160m floor last week, at the moment its around 200mil down from finished height, concrete base..
If possible my customer would like tiling commencing in December which is why a standard 50mil S&C or anhydrite screed is no good..
Anyhow polypipe came out yesterday to spec it.
My customer has told me that their recommendations are as follows..
120 mil kingspan type insulation
60 mil liquid fibre screed
Overlay floating cement boards with wet ufh pipes in then to top it off and for a final layer before tiling..
Wait for it 10 mil WPB screwed into the floating cement boards
Rang polyshite today to question the 10 mil ply and after being put through to tech the guy says "yes mate thats fine to tile on" will you guarantee it then as there's £9000 worth of tiles, adhesive and labour going on top of your 10 mil ply and British standards state minimum 15mil " Erm No, we can only recommend"
Would you guarantee it if I put 10mill of fibre leveler over the pipes as Webber spec this? "No guarantees but that would also be recommend"
So final word then...can you put your recommendations in an email then I have something in writing then...10 minutes later this email arrives, with no mention of an 10mil ply I notice, so could this finally put and end to the age old question...just wtf are we spozed to do over wet ufh pipe bar follow the adhesive manufacturers guidelines and just totally ignore what polypie have to say on the matter as they clearly don't know their *** from their elbow

 

[White Room]

If they don't how are you supposed to start fixing

 

[Spare Tool]

If they don't how are you supposed to start fixing

Exactly Mark...no guarantees though

 

[Chalker]

Tbh. best course of action would be 125 mm insulation, 65mm screed and 10mm of tile.
But. This means no tiling for a while. Until dry. If you customer wants it doing properly, that's the only way.
They will gave to wait.

Ps. Polypipe just want to sell their c@@p

 

[Spare Tool]

Tbh. best course of action would be 125 mm insulation, 65mm screed and 10mm of tile.
But. This means no tiling for a while. Until dry. If you customer wants it doing properly, that's the only way.
They will gave to wait.

Ps. Polypipe just want to sell their c@@p

Thats the first option we gave him...said we'd be back around March to tile it...he nearly fell over, some folk just won't wait!!

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

why not put the pipes under 6 bar water pressure then screed and tile the same day when dry release pressure
from pipes.

 

[AliGage]

Ditra bekotech?

Celotex - bekotech panels and pipes - shallower Snc. Once dry enough for foot traffic, ditra and go??

 

[widler]

That looks just like the poly pipe system @AliGage ?
http://www.polypipe.com/cms/toolbox/Polypipe_Installation_Guide_UFH_Solid_floor_web.pdf

This is the system they wanted to install but it needed 60mm screed on top ,,looks exactly the same

 

[AD Ceramics]

I feel your pain lads, I had exactly the same problem with poly pipe what a load of .............. can't say it for fear of recriminations (b#####kings)

 

[AliGage]

That looks just like the poly pipe system @AliGage ?
http://www.polypipe.com/cms/toolbox/Polypipe_Installation_Guide_UFH_Solid_floor_web.pdf

This is the system they wanted to install but it needed 60mm screed on top ,,looks exactly the same

Schluters can have a much thinner screed though on the bekotech panels.
Can't remember how deep exactly now though. But once it's dry enough to walk on with out leaving an impression you can ditra it and tile.

 

[Old Mod]

Schluters can have a much thinner screed though on the bekotech panels.
Can't remember how deep exactly now though. But once it's dry enough to walk on with out leaving an impression you can ditra it and tile.

Wasn't it about 30mm @AliGage?

 

[AliGage]

Wasn't it about 30mm @AliGage?

Yeah something like that. I'll look it up later. But something Luke 30-32mm above the panels.

 

[AliGage]

Minimum screed thickness is 32mm. 8mm above the nibs in the panels.

Schlüter®-BEKOTEC | Function | Schlüter-Systems

 

[widler]

but even 30mm of screed would need 30 days to dry .
Would ditra over the top of a wet screed not trap the moisture ? Is ditra breathable , it is a worry thinking what these companies think up .
What about 'green screed addy' ,is this not a option ?

 

[Old Mod]

but even 30mm of screed would need 30 days to dry .
Would ditra over the top of a wet screed not trap the moisture ? Is ditra breathable , it is a worry thinking what these companies think up .
What about 'green screed addy' ,is this not a option ?

If u tape and joint Ditra with Kerdi band ( Keba) and use Kerdi Coll adhesive, that's their waterproof addy. Ditra forms a vapour barrier and can be tiled on as soon as u can walk on it without leaving foot marks or as soon as it can be mechanically repaired, I think the term is.
The screed will take longer to dry ultimately but there is less chance of it cracking or curling.

 

[widler]

Still not sure where the moisture would go marc.
Below is foil backed insulation, above is plastic barrier, wheres it going ?
You know i like a discussion but you have one half saying its gotta be dry and the other saying , ditra it and away you go
Im serious in saying this, i beleive none of them have the slightest idea how it works in EVERY environment, they test it and wing it

 

[Old Mod]

Moisture goes sideways Craig, the gap between fleece and plastic is the vapour barrier.

 

[Chalker]

Whatever way you look at this
To guarantee from failure. The floor needs to be dry.

 

[widler]

nope, i need science not 'it goes side ways'
It can go sideways when its tiled
The ditra is yet another barrier for the moisture to get past.
Come on, its friday

 

[J Sid]

I've been tiling over wet, week old new screeds for years using ditra as per there recommendations and never had any problems.

 

[J Sid]

Should add that this will improve the properties of the finished screed.
As nowadays screeds do not get covered during the first few weeks of curing as they should.

 

[widler]

So is it ok to tile a week old screed with green screed addy ?
which was part of the question , as 160m2 of ditra will possibly put him off price size
Or is green addy expensive

 

[J Sid]

Haven't used green adhesive for many year @wilder but would think if you are talking bal green screed that it will be a about half in price fixed, many a bit less
With Ditra you can tile as soon as you can walk on it and leave not boot marks as @3_fall said

 

[widler]

Ok, cheers julian , i think we have scared him off anyway by giving him options instead of 'screed tile and run'

 

[widler]

Ive been informed off my good friend @Andystiletiling that we start the job in december , doing thr bathrooms 1st, the floor can wait until new year