porcelain floor tile movement

[bugs183]

The best thing to do is explain exactly what you have, what each floor is, and what the height difference is between them etc, the more facts we have the better help everyone can give, otherwise we are guessing, pictures would be helpful.

 

[kaide]

I don't know whether it's a compound or concrete to level the floor. What is the difference? Our builder got his work man to level the floor and the next day, the tiler laid the floor tiles.
I really appreciate all your advice, so that my husband and I will know they should be doing tomorrow.

 

[kaide]

Hi Bugs183,
I have posted a picture of the kitchen floor but it won't show anything until they take the floor up.
Sorry I down loaded the picture twice. The concrete floor is nearly beyond the kitchen units on the left hand side. The plywood bit is the nearest in the photo. With the threshold, you can slide a screw driver underneath the tile.
As to height levels, we won't know until they take the floor up. Incidentally, the original floor had small ceramic tiles and they didn't move or creak.

 

[Martyn Leeds]

The builders are coming back tomorrow?
What does the builder say is causing the movement?
Obviously he thinks that changing the plywood is going to solve whatever the problem is,
but as you've seen already, there's a few other things to consider.

I think you should do a bit of detective work tomorrow, take some pics of the removed tiles and get a few on here.

Once the floor is removed, then describe the situation and assess best preperation methods on here, and with the info you've already got you can tell the builder to hang fire with the tiling untl its all prepped correctly..

Also, Usually you'd have to beg and argue for the builder to fix things - but by the sound of it he's happy to re-do it, maybe he know's something that we don't?

 

[bugs183]

As you say hard to tell, until it comes up, shame it looks nice and flat looking at the reflections
You'll have to dig a tile up and find out if it's dot n dab, if it is, no matter what the tiler says it's been fixed incorrectly.
Also i take the underfloor heating electric, if so did the tiler lay this out then level over this with leveling compound, if he tried to tile directly over the mat (dot n dab or with a trowel) it is prone to failure and also there can be hot spots in the matting where no adhesive has covered the mat.

 

[kaide]

Hi Martyn Leeds,

Thanks for your advice. We will definitely take photos tomorrow and post them.
We were surprised that our builder responded very quickly. Our builder works for the company director who owns the building company. Hope that makes sense.

 

[cam_low]

Tomorrow no works need to take place apart from questioning the builder as to what his methods of fixing the failure are and lifting one or two tiles to show tge fixing method.
Clearly you now know there are a few factors towards the failure.

I think this issue may go on a little longer than you anticipate. Hopefully the builder will comply on all levels and keep you a happy customer!

 

[kaide]

Hi Bugs183,
Thanks for your reply. The builder's work man did the self leveling. We think the self leveling is concrete. It's grey in colour. The tiler then tiled over the floor the next day. When the tiler re-placed a cracked tile, you could see the orange electric heating mat. How deep does the mat need to be? We understand that the heating mat will be damaged when the tiles are taken up. We will be definitely taking photos tomorrow when they take the floor up.

 

[Stef]

They must put the heat mat into a self level screed & it's sounds as though they haven't.
I bet when this is ripped up all tiles, or most of them, are dot dabbed onto the floor to get over the heat mat.

 

[bugs183]

Sounds that way doesn't it Robson, people look at me like i'm mad when i insist the underfloor heating has to be leveled over, 'sorry for doing your job properly!!'
I bet the builders man didn't prime the floor, so i bet all the self leveling he used is shot as well, it will be after the floor is removed.
Not sure what your asking, but you need to have a nice flat flat floor (hence the leveling already done), then you lay the mat out as needed, then you self level over the top of this, to cover and protect the cable, usually 4-6mm depending on the thickness of the wire. This is left overnight, then the tiler can tiler over the floor using a notched trowel 8-10mm to trowel the adhesive onto the floor, then each tile is back skimmed (adhesive spread out with a flat trowel across the tile back), then laid into the already notched adhesive, if the tiler needs to adjust a tile he adds or removes the adhesive needed, but NEVER spots adhesive, if he's prepared the floor correctly he should never need to dot n dab.

 

[kaide]

Hi Robson,Thanks for your reply.
When the tiler, tiled the floor, you could not see the orange electric heat mat. As my husband remembers, the heat mat does not butt up against the skirting board at the far end of the kitchen on the left hand side. When you tap the tiles where we know there is no heating mat, it sounds hollow. But they also sound hollow where the heating mat is over the rest of the kitchen. I'm beginning to feel that the tiler has used a combination of dotndab in laying the tiles.
Thanks to every one, we have loads of questions to ask tomorrow and thereafter to make sure the floor is properly laid. Thanks again.

 

[bugs183]

In my opinion the way to play it is to keep your cool, don't fly off at the handle, ask the tiler how he laid the floor, let him have his say.
Then ask him if the tiles were 'solid bedded' into the adhesive and what size notched trowel he used.
He may start to squirm, it is the only way to fix floor tiles.
Then suggest a tile is taken up and then it sounds like you'll see dot and dab, and possibly no signs of any adhesive notches. If so he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[kaide]

Hi Bugs183,
The tiler is taking the floor up now. I have taken a picture. Is this the dabndot technique he's used?
Many thanks
The tiler has told me he has done it this way because the floor was not level!

 

[widler]

Now, let the fun begin

Take a photo of the substrate as well , what he has tiled on !

 

[bugs183]

Oh dear, you shouldn't be seeing any flattened out blobs of adhesive like that,he's troweled the floor but by dotting adhesive it has spread fully under the tile, it should have consistant spread of adhesive. If the floor wasn't right he should have insuated the floor was re leveled or he should have leveled it himself.
sorry to say but if he's dotted the tiles like that everywhere then it gas to come ul before it cones up on it's own.
he may be professional and could have been under pressure from the builder, but has still been done incorrectly.