porcelain floor tile movement

[Perfect Tiling]

Please don't refer to the guy who did the tiling as a tiler. If the tiles are loose and there is only a blob of adhesive at each corner then this is not a tiler...he is what is known as an XXXX.....4 letters starts in A and ends in E. Unfortunately its these types of people who seem to get a lot of the work because they price cheap and do fast and aren't at all bothered about the fact that it will need to be all done again. If you needed to get a car fixed would you take it to a mechanic...or a gardener??? Oops.......rant over .

 

[AliGage]

Evening Guys and Girls,

I subscribed to this thread a few minutes after it got posted and have only just got round to reading it all. You're getting some sound advice.

Just wanted to highlight the decor end panel in the right hand side of the last picture you posted. It looks to be a good 1"-1.5" off the floor. The furthest one on the right and the one you see on the left are onto the concrete. If that kitchen has been fitted level that floor needs a lot of work.

 

[Perfect Tiling]

Just a quick querie. If the floor is having underfloor heating installed why use cement boards. Surely an insulation board from the likes of wedi would be better otherwise the cement boards and the section of concrete floor are just going to absorb all of the heat and make it cost a fortune to run. A wedi board glued and screwed to the timber section of floor and just glued to the concrete section with expansion section would be a better solution.

 

[AliGage]

Just a quick querie. If the floor is having underfloor heating installed why use cement boards. Surely an insulation board from the likes of wedi would be better otherwise the cement boards and the section of concrete floor are just going to absorb all of the heat and make it cost a fortune to run. A wedi board glued and screwed to the timber section of floor and just glued to the concrete section with expansion section would be a better solution.

They've opted for Marmox i believe. Pretty much the same as Wedi. Both completely different to HardieBacker. If you're getting a bit confused.

 

[bugs183]

You put the undefloor heating over the Marmox, then it reflects the heat back up.

 

[Perfect Tiling]

Ok. I thought they had just put cement boards over the plywood section. Iv'e never seen marmox before. The supplier I use (CTD) carries the Wedi board which is what I always use when putting down UFH. Cheers.

 

[kaide]

Hi Aligage,
Thanks for your comment about the height of the end decor panel. Your right, the floor needs a lot of work. Our builder has brought round his structural engineer and it's bad news about the joists. The joists have been spliced in places in the past. What they suggest is to put new joists running in the opposite direction (it'll look a grid) underneath the existing joists. It'll be a time consuming job as they will be working around the new existing kitchen. We are quite upset as we wished they had checked the floor in the first place. Like, can the floor take the weight of the new kitchen and flooring. It sounds so logical, why didn't they do that? We are not happy about the guy who laid the plywood etc as he didn't tell our builder that the joists are spliced because you can actually see it, now it's been pointed out to us.

 

[kaide]

Hi Bugs183,
I thought the grey board you can see in the photo was tilebacker board. It's not. I asked the builder to tell me what it was today and he told me it's chipboard. It's got some kind of coating on it and so I guess it's treated waterproof chipboard. From surfing the net, I've found that you can't use self levelling compound directly onto chipboard and that you have to put plywood on top. This never happened in my case, the guy put the compound directly on it. Incidentally, when the tiler had replaced a broken tile last year, there was condesation underneath and he said he had never seen it before. But yesterday, he said it was very common with ufh. Is this true? Any way, the structural engineer has told us today that we have got some rising damp.

 

[AliGage]

Hi Aligage,
Thanks for your comment about the height of the end decor panel. Your right, the floor needs a lot of work. Our builder has brought round his structural engineer and it's bad news about the joists. The joists have been spliced in places in the past. What they suggest is to put new joists running in the opposite direction (it'll look a grid) underneath the existing joists. It'll be a time consuming job as they will be working around the new existing kitchen. We are quite upset as we wished they had checked the floor in the first place. Like, can the floor take the weight of the new kitchen and flooring. It sounds so logical, why didn't they do that? We are not happy about the guy who laid the plywood etc as he didn't tell our builder that the joists are spliced because you can actually see it, now it's been pointed out to us.

I can't understand why the floor wasn't sorted before any installation has taken place. The fitter as obviously aware because the panel is far off the floor.
I fear some of your kitchen may have to be removed to rectify the floor.
How's the general attitude of your builder to it all?

 

[CJ]

Unbelievable saga for you.

Contender for builder from hell?

 

[bugs183]

Oh no, it sounds like you're having a nightmare, but at least you know your joists are safe now, no thanks to the guys that didn't inform you.
Well i've never heard of condensation due to electric underfloor heating, i wonder if anyone else has heard that one before?

 

[AliGage]

For there to be condensation there needs to be air and a difference in temperature. Im sure dot and dabbing the tiles won't have helped.
All those pockets under the tiles getting warned up and then cooling each time you're UFH is used.

 

[kaide]

I can't understand why the floor wasn't sorted before any installation has taken place. The fitter as obviously aware because the panel is far off the floor.
I fear some of your kitchen may have to be removed to rectify the floor.
How's the general attitude of your builder to it all?

Thank you so much for reading my post.
Our builder works for a building company and he's title is Contracts Manager. His attitude has been really good and he wants to rectify the situation. I just hope he will make sure his tiler will properly prep the floor according to BS 5385-3 Codes of Practice. The tiler did not prep the floor last time, it was a builder that the Contracts Manager employed to do. They are not going to remove the kitchen but work round it.

 

[AliGage]

I don't come across floors in your sort of condition too often. Most houses i work in around my area are less than 50 years old. Some of the guys on here will be able to help you make sure your on the right track. One thing i will pay though that large dip i high lighted really needs to be made good or as near as before UFH and SLC. You don't want to be heating 30-40mm of SLC Came adhesive before you get to the tile.

 

[kaide]

I don't come across floors in your sort of condition too often. Most houses i work in around my area are less than 50 years old. Some of the guys on here will be able to help you make sure your on the right track. One thing i will pay though that large dip i high lighted really needs to be made good or as near as before UFH and SLC. You don't want to be heating 30-40mm of SLC Came adhesive before you get to the tile.

Thanks AliGage,
My husband and I, are of the same opinion as you about the large dip.
We have learnt so much from all of you and want to thank you all for all the positive feedback. Our house is a terrace house and was built in 1904. The concrete area at the back of the kitchen would have been the outhouses; hence the difference in substates - concrete and wooden floors.

 

[AliGage]

More than welcome.
Not too long ago i did a bathroom install in a little cottage that had not long had there kitchen done by one of these company's that advertise on the tv
They had Lino put down in there kitchen because they were told that's all they can have. There kitchen was extended in to out buildings and had a similar mismatch of substrates like yours.