questions from someone trying to understand

[Jim Carlin]

In the U.S. we do not have licensing requirement universally across the country. Some states do require a license and some of those are ligitiment in their effort to maintain quality installers. Other states simply look at it as a source of revenue. All standards in this county are voluntary. How are they in England? Do you have apprenticeships? We as a association are attempting to start a certification program in this country next year. It is scheduled to roll out the first quater of the year. The problem is its voluntary:mad2: We are hoping that the installers will jump onto the bandwagon and participate thus being able to advertise the fact that they are certified in a certain phase of the job.

Just curious how things are done in England.

 

[Dan]

We don't have anything of that effect here in action currently. Our association is trying to get all tilers (tile setters) qualified and they're trying to get all site managers to only employ qualified tilers too I believe.

Apparently by 2010 you'll not be able to get on-site without the standard NVQ qualification or older equivalent qualification.... but both routes would also need an extra health and safety test which afterwards gives you a card allowing you on-site. The Card Scheme is currently in-place but it's going to be tough to get all the tilers trained I feel.

With Gas plumbing we have to be CORGI registered and any attempts of Gas plumbing without one is pretty much against the law and deemed unsafe for obvious reasons.

Although I think a bad tiling job can have just as great risks. Perhaps not blowing up a property (which is rare i'm sure) but more common serious problems such as heavy tiles falling off walls... although not many serious injuries are reported, its still a serious problem as it does happen.

It's our associations job I feel to ensure that all tiling work is done to a good standard and push out the bad tilers or get them trained but nothing ever happens when a tiling job goes wrong really. In a bad case the tiler would just get a bad name for a while and no more work from their local tile store or something which is annoying really as good tilers have to really prove themselves amongst the bunch somehow and its hard for a traditional tiler to produce portfolios, websites and other marketing tools when they're half way through their career and work dries up a little due to our constant lust for foreign tilers that work cheaper and the tiling training centre boom.

We have a huge amount of training centres (see the A-Z at Tiling Courses - Wall and Floor Tiling Course - Tiling NVQ - Tiling Courses & Tiling Course Companies) and no single governing body to govern the training or the tilers qualifications and skill level.

It's a bit crazy really here to be honest mate. it sounds not too dissimilar across the pond then.

 

[Rob Z]

Hi Jim, Dan,

I've long wished that there was a "master's rating" for the tile trade, equivalant to what is standard in most states with regard to plumbing, HVAC, electrical, and gas fitting. I suspect that it will never happen for a lot of reasons, but if it ever did, we all could quickly raise rates for tile related work..

 

[Jim Carlin]

At the present time we have the backing of the major manufacturers, tile, cements, tools, membranes, etc. There was a meeting last year, I think it was in Barcelona, that the main topic was trained installers. This was raised by the manufacturers. I do know from my wearing the inspectors or consultants "hat", that most if not 99% of tile problems can be related to installer error. Either installing on the wrong surface, or using the wrong thinset for the proper application, etc. The remaining 1% can be divided between structural defects and manufacturer defects. When I'm hired to find why the floor or shower failed, it's both comical and scary when you see the installations that are completed. When the thinset doesn't adhere to the floor and doesn't leave any trace of cement on the floor but has stuck well to the tile, it is hard to believe the installer is telling me it is a defective thinset and the manufacturer should pay for the replacement. It is extremely hard not to laugh out loud and I do have to bite my tongue real hard so as not to give some wise crack about the thinset only being sticky on one side. In this incident the installer used a thinset that was not compatable with vinyl adhesive which had a film residue left on the floor. The only thing keeping it in place was the 3 G's. God, Gravity, and Grout. And the grout was already cracking and falling out.
Most homeowners today are also becoming aggressive along with the commercial building owners in their attempt to correct and "right the wrong" . I guess this will keep the lawyers happy and busy. One good side to this is there might actually be a little "cleaning of the pool" if you know what I mean.
The lawyers are bring civil charges against these contractors and winning in court. The big problem is getting the money from them. If they do own property such as a vehicle or house, the courts will and have attached them. That is rare though. Most pay up and figure it as a cost of doing business and move on to another part of the state or country. It is a vicous cycle, but I think we are gaining.
My Insurance company will not insure me if I do something that is a licensed trade. (plumber, electrician, or gas man)
----
Rob,
Its comming in the first quater of next year.

 

[Rob Z]

Jim,

I have attended a few NTCA Road Shows at my local tile distributor...have you been involved with the Road Shows?

 

[Jim Carlin]

Rob,
Yes i'm involved because I serve on the education and training committee.