Resin backed stone - adhesive

[Concrete guy]

http://www.ardex.co.uk/Portals/0/productdocs/73e604b8-8497-4d81-9653-bc80d03f016a.pdf

 

[IHB]

I've spoken to Weber and Ardex tech support and:
- Weber can't recommend any of their adhesives.
- Ardex don't guarantee any either.

Ardex tech were very helpful & seems that X7+ E90 or X77 will work 9 times out of 10 but could fail. Problem is that the Epoxy coating is an unknown and varies in quality so they don't know what your sticking to. Can get a failure of the epoxy/tile bond or the adhesive/epoxy bond but if everything is rigid and stable then probably okay. Weber didn't go into as much detail but I suspect the same is true.

Epoxy mesh seems like a **** poor idea. Can't blame them not recommending or guaranteeing to be honest. Think I'll be grinding of the backs to make contact with the tile itself on the larger tiles and keeping fingers crossed on the mosaics.

 

[Concrete guy]

How thick are these tiles?

 

[IHB]

13mm. Seem quite stable & I don't think most of them actually need the mesh.

 

[Concrete guy]

You'd be surprised how much rigidity that resin and mesh adds to a veneer of stone. In reality the epoxy used in these products it likely to be stronger and have a stronger bond than the marble itself, but no one can ever guarantee that as there are too many variables.

There comes a point when you have to put down the BS spec sheets and make a judgement call with the information provided but the tech departments of each manufacturer.

I used to use Ardex products because I found their tech department so helpful and open to a chat if you were ever unsure about anything.

 

[cam_low]

Ive fixed these cheap tiles lots of times. Ditra. Spf. Back butter. Watch out for tile sizes and out of square tiles. Are these internet bought tiles? Sample semt to customer in 10x10cm size showing a perfect marble.
In reality the 600x400 is veiny and in parts rough!!!! Held together with the resin back mosaic.
When wet cutting expect some to fall apart on the machine bed.

 

[widler]

I wouldn't grind then,daft really, just weakening them, the mesh and resin is there for a reason

 

[Concrete guy]

Ive fixed these cheap tiles lots of times. Ditra. Spf. Back butter. Watch out for tile sizes and out of square tiles. Are these internet bought tiles? Sample semt to customer in 10x10cm size showing a perfect marble.
In reality the 600x400 is veiny and in parts rough!!!! Held together with the resin back mosaic.
When wet cutting expect some to fall apart on the machine bed.

I believe these are wall tiles. As much as Ditra seems to have become the answer to every tiling related problem, I'm not sure it's being used to uncouple marble wall tiling yet. But I have no doubt it's only a matter of time before something is developed :sofahide:

 

[cam_low]

Lol

 

[IHB]

Okay. So no grinding. Would you just push ahead with Weber SPF or would Ardex X7 + E90 be better. Both aren't recommended by the adhesive manufacturer but I suspect both will stick.

 

[cam_low]

I set one on the first job I did as I was dubious. Could I hell get it up. That contact epoxy stuff is well sticky stuff lol. Up toyou mate.
Belt n braces 2 part.

 

[Concrete guy]

They will both stick like poo to a blanket.

What you need to remember is the manufacturer cannot provide a guarantee for a product that isn't theirs.

In this case, the marble is glued to epoxy and mesh, the adhesive is attached to the epoxy and mesh. The manufacturer can guarantee their product will adhere to the epoxy and mesh but beyond that they can't reasonably offer anything.

When fitting this stuff you'll often find overlaps at some of the tile edges where epoxy and mesh have wrapped over a bit, if it's a devils job to clean these bits off even with a sharp stanley knife, then it's reasonable to think that it's likely to hold together once it's attached to the wall.

The flip side of this is when you find you can simply peel up a corner of backing mesh by hand, then strip the whole sheet off without much effort - that's the point you pack it all up and take it back to the shop as not fit for purpose.

In situations like these it's just a bit of common sense really.

 

[IHB]

The tiles all seem vey good to be honest. All square, same size, same thickness, all very regular and hold together when wet cut using a overhead saw.

Most of the mesh is well stuck. As you say there are parts where the epoxy hasn't taken that are easy to strip to the stone.

If the adhesive sticks to the epoxy mesh then it's all I ask. Weber printing "not recommended for resin backed" all over their tech sheets is what's made me pause. In reality it seems to stick extremely well so either they're being cautious (can't blame them) or the bond may fail in time.

Ian