Should anyone let an UNQUALIFIED tradesman into their home?

[True Tiling]

This is controversial, but I care not. In at least some parts the USA, NO tradesman is allowed into somebodies house without proof of qualifications. It's the same in the UK, but with plumbers and electricians only. So WHY IS IT DIFFERENT FOR TILERS (OR PLASTERERS) in the UK?. So here is a make-believe example - if a tiler has used 900x900 marble tiles to tile a bathroom wall and they fall from the wall and they hit a baby who is being bathed, and kill the baby. Who get's the manslaughter charge? The tiler or the plasterer? Nowadays, this would happen by the way! True story: I heard of a guy who tiled a domestic kitchen worktop and used BAL Microban. Later, the elderly lady prepared some chicken on the surface, and ended up dead after suffering from Salmonella poising. After forensics, the blame was put upon the tiler as he didn't use an epoxy grout, and he served 5 years for manslaughter (thanks to the late ladies' son who was a lawyer).

So this is my question:

Should the Government bring in REAL qualification legislation for tilers just like that of Heating Engineers or Electricians, as incorrect tiling installations can be life-threatening also, especially with the movement towards large format tiles?

 

[AliGage]

Haven't got time to to rant on my opinion on this. But i would be happy and agreeable for something to be put in place like the Part P for sparks.
I firmly believe that if tilers were regulated in the qualifications and ability to carry out work that this would, amoung other things, weed out the cowboys and bad tradesman, and mean that a professional, qualified tiler can demand the justifiable wages we used to be able to. After all we are skilled, qualified professionals.

 

[nybor62]

agree with all above, especially on the private domestic side, were they dont have to deal with site agents,and no one to answer to other than the house owner
but its usually to late has they have took there money and run

 

[Dan]

I've said the industry needs certificates of some sort of ages. The only way it'd ever happen is if dozens of people died per year for a couple of years due to the sole fault of poor tiling from a dodgy 'tradesman'.

 

[AliGage]

Agreed. It would offer the residential customers a bit more protection. In the same way you wouldn't let anyone service your boiler without a gas safe registration.

Having said that, i don't think we should then be made to pay for the privilage of said card/ID/cert. Not if you can pass/prove knowledge, skill, quals, etc.

 

[Dan]

I think most wouldn't mind paying a couple of hundred quid a year, if in the end, it got you thousands more work because the 'builder, plumber, plasterer, bricky, etc' wasn't in the trade periodically as and when it pleased them.

 

[AliGage]

If it was a couple of hundred quid. I don't know exact figures but doesn't gas safe and part p amount to 4 figures? Or have i been mislead?

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

the only way this would happen is if insurance companys. insurancing your house would only cover work done by professional qualified tilers or other trades long over due this would save every body money in the long run. show us the qualifacions or you cant work here

 

[kilty55]

in all honesty from what i have seen from qualified sparks,plumbers and heating engineers at times in customers houses it beggars belief how they get qualified in the 1st instance,yes they have the knowledge in them and the skill to carry out the job to the required standard...do they always do it no they do not. this is just my opinion but its one thing being able to do a job but motivating and maintaining high standards on jobs is something that i have noticed many cannot/dont bother to do unless prompted.

 

[Ajax123]

Simple fact is if spark or a gas fitter gets I wrong people die. Not aware of anyone ever dying as a result of uneven plaster or lips on a tile face.

I don't agree that tiling as a trade should be legislatively regulated. I do however agree that suitable qualifications should b available. The tile association should perhaps campaign for house builders and the like to only use qualified tilers but legal regulation I don't think so.

What I would be in four o is legislation which made the follow on trade responsible for the previous contracts work. I have said this in another thread. The tiler should take responsibility or the screed, or the timber or whatever I is. The screeder to take responsibility for the underfloor heating etc etc. that way there is very little chance that a tiler will tile a floor where the substrate is unsuitable.

Things would get built properly

 

[macten]

I agree with everything that has been said so far but feel Kilty has hit the nail on the head. Some form of certs/license would do nothing to weed out the cowboys in the real world. It would just be another overhead to pay for each year and cowboys will still get plenty of cheap work as that's what so many customers out there want.

 

[Peter]

Agree, if tiling was certified then it would only have a place in commercial work. Your average price orientated home owner isn't going to pay the extra for an 'approved' tiler when someone under the radar will do it for less.

NVQs etc don't mean anything, you can either tile or you can't tile.

 

[charlie1]

I sometimes even wonder if the public appreciate an exceptionally good job compared with an 'ok' one! Most of us on Here are passionate about tiling but sometimes wonder what's the point when someone else armed with a tile cutter and a trowel can do an ok job that the client is happy with!

 

[Ajax123]

I sometimes even wonder if the public appreciate an exceptionally good job compared with an 'ok' one! Most of us on Here are passionate about tiling but sometimes wonder what's the point when someone else armed with a tile cutter and a trowel can do an ok job that the client is happy with!

I guess one of the issues is that generally joe public oly looks at what they can see unless thereis a problem. If the tiles are flat, neat and tidy then it must be a good job. It is what goes on behind what they can see that makes a professional job. Not many people would know what goes on behind so no, they don't often appreciate a truly good job.

 

[geo147]

This is controversial, but I care not. In at least some parts the USA, NO tradesman is allowed into somebodies house without proof of qualifications. It's the same in the UK, but with plumbers and electricians only. So WHY IS IT DIFFERENT FOR TILERS (OR PLASTERERS) in the UK?. So here is a make-believe example - if a tiler has used 900x900 marble tiles to tile a bathroom wall and they fall from the wall and they hit a baby who is being bathed, and kill the baby. Who get's the manslaughter charge? The tiler or the plasterer? Nowadays, this would happen by the way! True story: I heard of a guy who tiled a domestic kitchen worktop and used BAL Microban. Later, the elderly lady prepared some chicken on the surface, and ended up dead after suffering from Salmonella poising. After forensics, the blame was put upon the tiler as he didn't use an epoxy grout, and he served 5 years for manslaughter (thanks to the late ladies' son who was a lawyer).

So this is my question:

Should the Government bring in REAL qualification legislation for tilers just like that of Heating Engineers or Electricians, as incorrect tiling installations can be life-threatening also, especially with the movement towards large format tiles?

im no expert but i do a fair bit of cooking so can someone please explain the issues with the work top, tiling, grout and salmonella poisoning?
was the chicken raw or cooked? if prepared uncorrectly or the surface not disinfected then salmonella could result but thats true of any surface.

 

[John Benton]

im no expert but i do a fair bit of cooking so can someone please explain the issues with the work top, tiling, grout and salmonella poisoning?
was the chicken raw or cooked? if prepared uncorrectly or the surface not disinfected then salmonella could result but thats true of any surface.

Don't prepare chicken on a wooden chopping board

 

[Time's Ran Out]

The issue I see with the OP (true tiling) question is not that we embrace yet another of the American suing culture, but how many qualified tilers - and with 39 years of experience I may be bold enough to include myself - are actually 'Qualified' to install 900x900mm tiles.
As new developments/technology such as fast set adhesives, underfloor heating, screeds and and very large format tiles all become the new norm, what training do any of us take to ensure that we are capable of delivering the safest installation.
As has often been stated on this forum, just because you have fixed tiles for years it doesn't mean you can turn out a good job, and for those who do - you still have no recognised qualification (as a Grandad I have NVQ 2 ).
If you want to drive on the roads, you have to have a license and that costs money.
If you want to belong to a golf club, you have to become a member and that costs money.
So why not pay to be assessed every year on all issues from Health and Safety to the latest product developments and receive a level of competence certificate which can be used to promote your own business.
It may not have any bearing on whether you can actually fix tiles to an acceptable standard, but at least you should have the knowledge to do the job properly and if this was a pre requisite for having an insurance policy then the customer may have the confidence to offer you the contract.
Now all we have to do is educate the customer to do the required homework before instructing a 'tiler' before the commencement of a project.

 

[geo147]

Don't prepare chicken on a wooden chopping board

i dont understand why not and i dont understand what thats got to do with the tiling/grout manslaughter case.

on the point of tiles falling a killing someone the question is where do you stop? what about people who put up shelves or doors or kitchen cabinets? they could all kill someone if they fell.

such legislation would mean the end of DIY. you would not be allowed to anything.

i would be interested to learn more about this death of the old lady case, i cant find anything about it on the internet and being such an unusual case, i would expect to find some information. the OP said he heard it from someone, is it possible something has been lost in translation?

thanks

 

[Ajax123]

Don't prepare chicken on a wooden chopping board

Why?? Wood has natural anti bacterial qualities and provided you clean it deter words whats the problem.....

 

[Ajax123]

im no expert but i do a fair bit of cooking so can someone please explain the issues with the work top, tiling, grout and salmonella poisoning?
was the chicken raw or cooked? if prepared uncorrectly or the surface not disinfected then salmonella could result but thats true of any surface.

I personally think the result of the salmonella case says more about the skill of the lawyers than about the quality of tiling.... Oh and the thoroughness of the poisonees housekeeping skills.......

 

[Ajax123]

i dont understand why not and i dont understand what thats got to do with the tiling/grout manslaughter case.

on the point of tiles falling a killing someone the question is where do you stop? what about people who put up shelves or doors or kitchen cabinets? they could all kill someone if they fell.

such legislation would mean the end of DIY. you would not be allowed to anything.

i would be interested to learn more about this death of the old lady case, i cant find anything about it on the internet and being such an unusual case, i would expect to find some information. the OP said he heard it from someone, is it possible something has been lost in translation?

thanks

Urban myth perhaps....

 

[Martino]

The old lady had a lawyer for a son........i reckon this is a case of Chinese whispers

 

[John Benton]

Why?? Wood has natural anti bacterial qualities and provided you clean it deter words whats the problem.....

I understood that the juices stayed in the knife marks but I suppose that could be of most surfaces if they are not cleaned properly. I stand corrected.

 

[afright]

Always said to the wife ,Don,t like chicken it can be dodgy,

 

[Ajax123]

Mostly eat chicken or fish. Never had food poisoning from either. Always make sure they're cooked properly. Provided salmonella is cooked properly it does not cause food poisoning. It dies at temperatures above about 55degrees centigrade. Most cases of salmonella poisoning are a result of eating either raw or uncooked food (cook it and problem is gone) or from eating food which has previously been cooked but subsequently contaminated. ( clean up properly after cooking and problem s gone)

Most domestic kitchens will have some salmonella kicking around but it is a numbers game