Slip Rating For Floor Tiles

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

have been doing a little testing today on the same range of tiles here s the sort of results you can get

 

[Dan]

have been doing a little testing today on the same range of tiles here s the sort of results you can get

Had to go to my mac then to see them PDF's. Else I'd have replied earlier. This is something I seem to be interested in just lately.

So the Paris C3 passes with flying colours even when wet. But the C1 and C2 seem to be brilliant dry, but below what you'd want in a wet area?

 

[Dan]

The PTV should be considered in relation to the area the tile is placed in. In many instances the PTV in wet conditions should be checked and recommended by the tiler.

I am in the process of choosing and ordering tiles for a butchers floor which is often covered in blood and needs hosing down daily. I find it safest to turn to experts like Dorset Wooliscroft (now part of Original Style family). They give PTV for both wet and dry conditions in their tile brochure - I am recommending the butcher goes for a wet PTV rating of 54, and will specify epoxy grout.

As to whether or not commercial shop traders need anti-slip tiles - well has anyone been into a Debenhams lately? Polished porcelain on the floor, but with matting at the entrance, and additional floor mats placed near the entrance when heavy rain falling outside. As tilers we can recommend and point out the risks of certain types of tile, but the use of the floor is up to the individual in charge of the premises.

So that kinda answers my feelings on the survey. As tilers we need to be informed, advise and make recommendations. I often give a percentage risk of (cracking, tile debonding, slip) of a danger or problem, but let the customer choose what to do. Use of the tiled area becomes their responsibility if we give informed advice. And I don't want to lose too much potential work by telling customers I won't tile if they ignore my advice.

They'll use tiles that meet the PTV even for wet areas, else they'd not get insured to open the shop when it's raining. I'd assume. And they have various other risk assessments going on that stipulate wet floor signs when wet and whatnot.

I'm talking about bathrooms though, and perhaps even more-so, actual wetrooms. Surely if they're always wet, and some have a fall to a drain, you're asking for trouble.

Then if it's an elderly person, who loves her porcelain, wants a wetroom with not much space available, meaning the fall is going to be a degree or two deeper than a large wet room that can have a slight slope, do we start to do a risk assessment in our heads and say no, I'd just rather not? Or take the money and do it?

I'm just thinking out loud here. When I looked for PTV threads or even threads talking about slippy tiles in wet areas, we just don't seem to have much discussion on it. Yet when I look for threads where we're talking about tiling walls with heavy tiles, the next 30 posts in the thread are asking about weight of tiles and warning of the outcome etc etc etc

So it's good that we discuss it, even if at the end we seem to come to a conclusion of considering the risks a bit more, but not turning down work, perhaps just persuading a little better when an old lady hasn't thought about the risk or whatever.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

Had to go to my mac then to see them PDF's. Else I'd have replied earlier. This is something I seem to be interested in just lately.

So the Paris C3 passes with flying colours even when wet. But the C1 and C2 seem to be brilliant dry, but below what you'd want in a wet area?

well it seems as you go darker the ptv seems to increase so tomorrow c4 c 5 see how that goes

 

[Dan]

well it seems as you go darker the ptv seems to increase so tomorrow c4 c 5 see how that goes

Really?!

Good find that mate!

Need to test way more than a few to get it conclusive I guess but that's a start.

Do you have any clue as to why that is? Do darker porcelains have more resins in or something?

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

Really?!

Good find that mate!

Need to test way more than a few to get it conclusive I guess but that's a start.

Do you have any clue as to why that is? Do darker porcelains have more resins in or something?

well had a few computer problems saving what we were doing but now fixed .its about the layers of glaze that make the diffrence with over 200 tiles to test will know a lott more as i go along

 

[Dan]

So do you think once you've worked out why, you can increase to PTV for white tiles too?

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

So do you think once you've worked out why, you can increase to PTV for white tiles too?

yes no problem the holy grail is ptv 36 and above that are easy to keep clean the c3 all day long i have changed the finnishes on the same tiles and on some of the tosca ranges
t3 and t5 with great results buts its on going i like to work with people who hear what you say and give it a go .rather than ones that say thats what we do take it or leave it

 

[andy8758]

They'll use tiles that meet the PTV even for wet areas, else they'd not get insured to open the shop when it's raining. I'd assume. And they have various other risk assessments going on that stipulate wet floor signs when wet and whatnot.

I'm talking about bathrooms though, and perhaps even more-so, actual wetrooms. Surely if they're always wet, and some have a fall to a drain, you're asking for trouble.

Then if it's an elderly person, who loves her porcelain, wants a wetroom with not much space available, meaning the fall is going to be a degree or two deeper than a large wet room that can have a slight slope, do we start to do a risk assessment in our heads and say no, I'd just rather not? Or take the money and do it?

I'm just thinking out loud here. When I looked for PTV threads or even threads talking about slippy tiles in wet areas, we just don't seem to have much discussion on it. Yet when I look for threads where we're talking about tiling walls with heavy tiles, the next 30 posts in the thread are asking about weight of tiles and warning of the outcome etc etc etc

So it's good that we discuss it, even if at the end we seem to come to a conclusion of considering the risks a bit more, but not turning down work, perhaps just persuading a little better when an old lady hasn't thought about the risk or whatever.

I agree its a good discussion post, and it at least makes fixers aware of additional risks in installing floor tiles.

I have long considered advice on slip risks for bathrooms. For me a particular point of argument in the past has been with a retailer suggesting that polish is the best slate sealer... for a bathroom floor. Same retailer suggested that unfilled travertine must be sealed before grouting. Another retailer told a customer that mosaic tiles were waterproof. But I don't want to go off topic.

Slip resistance is not something that has been part of my tiling education, but has always a point of common sense when making site visits for preparing quotes. I agree that it should be considered alongside weight restrictions on walls, but I have to say that I have installed tiles over 9mm thick onto plastered walls were I have confidence the plaster has been properly applied - usually after pointing out the risks to a customer who has just paid a plasterer to skim the walls before choosing (e.g.) 10mm limestone tiles. Likewise I will point out the risks of (e.g.) polished porcelain on a bath/shower room floor, but without increasing the risk through any act of my own, I would still do the job if requested.

But I am happy to read others views opposed to mine (lol).

 

[Dan]

Mate, there's only me you and Ray chatting about it so I doubt you'll hear many views lmao

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

Mate, there's only me you and Ray chatting about it so I doubt you'll hear many views lmao

many tilers tile blind never question what the rep says but the can at the end of the day you end up holding now every time you speak to a rep or a sales person in a showroom telling you what you need to do .ask one simple question so how many tiles have you fixed ?using this .the penny may drop .in a court of law you are the exspert .but you made the mistake of trying to blame some with out know how that can you are still holding and its very heavy now you are going down.why when it works stick with it .you know it works .never change and become a test dummy for the dont knows give at least two years for any new product to prove its self .think how many are not there today

 

[Dan]

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Do your floor tiles meet UK HSE slip-resistance guidelines?
The Health & Safety Executive (HSE) recommends that any floor covering to be used in a public area must have a minimum PTV slip resistance value of 36 to be regarded as 'non-slip'. Whilst this may seem clear the method by which a bathroom or kitchen or any other floor tile is tested can give ambiguous results - meaning a floor tile marked as 'non-slip' may not actually meet these minimum HSE levels.

The less accurate Ramp method produces an R rating from 1 to 13 - with a rating of R11 being deemed sufficient to determine floor tile is ‘slip-resistant'. However, the far more exact and reliable Pendulum slip resistance test now offered by Porcel Thin actually provides a much more precise measurement based on a scale of 1 to 100. Furthermore a tile rated R11 falls into a PTV range of 34-51 which means that an R11 tile rated at 34 or 35 by the PTV system would fail to meet the HSE minimum guideline of 36.

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