Tanking law..

[DHTiling]

Who thinks that we should have a regulation introduced that bathrooms etc...should have the same regulations as most other countries have....and that we should be licenced to do so....?

By this i mean tanking/waterproofing...this would be a failsafe installation for the customer and only licenced installers can do it...but also all bathrooms must comply to this regulation....

After all a water tight room will then not be bothered by any water ingression be it on the walls or floors...

 

[White Room]

I'm with you on that Dave, That will save the insurance companys a fortune, The laws are to lax over hear and customers need educating

 

[Olz]

Anything that ultimatley protects the customer and increases the quality of the finished article can only be a good thing in my book

 

[BDS]

:hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray: I`m definately with dave on this one for sure we need to safeguard the customers.

 

[Gazzer]

I am amazed that in the year 2008 the building regs dont stipulate tanking of some form for these such areas and more amazed that insurance companies havent wised up either.

 

[Daz]

I was under the impression that something similar had been proposed for all newbuilds, although I'm not aware of enforcement dates.

Whilst it would be a great concept, I'm not sure how it could be introduced to the domestic sector without the home owner receiving some kind of financial grant???

 

[grumpygrouter]

Got to be the way ahead I think.:yes:

 

[White Room]

All new builds I've worked on never seen any tanking kit, That was a couple of years ago though, May have changed since:huh2:

 

[Daz]

I've never been near a site / new build, it's just something that I've heard, but have to admit that it does seem rather far fetched especially with today's economic climate :furious3:.

 

[White Room]

Sometimes the cosmetics look good but don't last

 

[cornish_crofter]

In principle I would agree, but we run the risk of over complicating the building regs to the extent where people just don't follow them anymore.

This is already happening with Part P of the building regs (Domestic Electrical Installations) I have 16th edition and C and G 2391 (inspection and test) and I regularly see professional builders and kitchen and bathroom fitters bending the rules with this one.

On the other hand the 17th edition regs themselve (not Part P but BS7671) are not actually mandatory. Part P that dictates that certain work is within scope and has to be certified is.

BS7671, although not mandatory is recognised as a defence to accusations of poor workmanship etc. In other words, if an electrician cannot claim that he worked IAW BS7671 then he has to come up with another defence to defend himself against such a claim.

I would welcome such a document to cover bathrooms along the lines of the way that BS7671 splits a bathroom up into zones.

There is a diagram on this page that explains how the zones are defined:

broken link removed

Go to Page 8

Zone 0 is inside the bath or shower cubicle
Zone 1 is directly above the bath or shower up to a height of 2.25m
Zone 2 is within 600mm of the bath or shower and up to a height of 2.25m
Zone 3 is within 2400 of zone 2 up to a height of 2.25m

This is an older document but I don't think these have changed with the 17th edition.

Perhaps a recommendation or a BS that we can work to would be a good move. This way we can recommend this to customers, but we won't be procluded from doing the work if the customer is not prepared to pay for it.

The other issue is that electrical installations have to be tested. In other words the tester has to submit certificates indicating continuity, impedence, resistance and earth loop resistance values obtained during electrical testing. How would you put a test value on tanking to indicate that it had been done in accordance with the regs?

 

[White Room]

BS is a good starting point but would experience suffice. It would mean that manufacturers would have to have their systems tested but it would cost them for the priveledge to get the kite mark

 

[DHTiling]

It works well in other countries so why not this one..?..

anymore views..?

 

[White Room]

We've been so lax most peeps would'nt understand what we was talking about, It's called a lack of communication

 

[cornish_crofter]

I think you would need to specify permitted tanking methods within say 700mm of a shower rail in one direction or the width of the bath, or within total enclosed space of a shower panel etc

These requirements could include tiles up to say min 1800mm above base of bath/shower tray on say a class A tanking arrangement, which would be defined separately. I would suggest Class A would include a choice of BAL tanking kit applied as per manufacturer recommendations, hardibacker, tilux membrane etc etc.

Then you could downgrade the requirement for areas outside the defined shower area.

It would need a lot of thought, but before you could pass a law or even set a standard, as Whitebeam says, you would need to pigeon hole the tanking solutions we've got out there.

This is the problem that we have at the moment. You walk into topps tiles and are told that the BAL Greenstar is fine for domestic showers, but with the no nonsense shower panels I fitted the other week, I would not have wanted to use it!

 

[cornish_crofter]

It works well in other countries so why not this one..?..

anymore views..?

Which countries are those Dave? Maybe we could look for some guidance on the web published for those countries.

 

[DHTiling]

Which countries are those Dave? Maybe we could look for some guidance on the web published for those countries.

ones i know of are...

1 : usa....some states( need to check which ones )

2 : australia.....as mentioned by mick

3. Sweden ...as mentioned by sWe....

if anybody knows of more feel free to add them..

 

[oldgit]

personally i dont think it should have anything to with tilers on new builds,if regs require tanking or boarding with a water proofed product then fine but if i was a tiling contractor there is no way i would be guaranteeing water tight areas.,imagine the lawsuits cropping after a tray has dropped 10mm and the tilers get the blame.
in a domestic situation for me its down to the customer,but maybe insurance companies should refuse or reduce premiums if a shower is tanked or not tanked.
i think tanking is only part of the answer to the said problem.
to me its not the walls that are the issue its the sealing of wall and floors joints.
water imo does not attack wall or floor substrates unless it can get in from a joint and by joint i exclude the tile joint as this is miniscule.
by water proofing or tanking walls and floors you will only push the problem somewhere else.

 

[cornish_crofter]

Which countries are those Dave? Maybe we could look for some guidance on the web published for those countries.

Just found one

Austrailia

Waterproofing Bathrooms

This talks about their building code.

 

[White Room]

Mick the tiler will vouch for that

 

[oldgit]

Just found one

Austrailia

Waterproofing Bathrooms

This talks about their building code.

well that sounds a lot more sensible than some of the methods ive seen in this country.

 

[DHTiling]

well that sounds a lot more sensible than some of the methods ive seen in this country.

So good or bad then..?..

 

[oldgit]

So good or bad then..?..

i think that sounds fairly good,but to me you have to stop the water getting in in the first place,i dont have a solution to that but i do believe that in the uk much of what is now available is more about revenue than the real solution

 

[DHTiling]

I just think that something needs to change.....how far this change goes then that will need a lot of work.....we are seeing to many failures of installations in bathrooms etc and peeps claiming on house policies for damaged ceilings/walls due to minor water leaks/penetration...from up-stairs.....

keep the suggestions coming please...they are great...

 

[cornish_crofter]

The main problem is, as Wetdec said on the phone to me when I spoke to him about wetrooms, is that we have been demanding more flow rate from our showers.

20 years ago we would be lucky to get 2 litres a minute out of a shower. A few weeks ago I fitted 2 shower panels, each of which deliver 6 litres a minute, and that is relitively low these days.

So we're now getting up to 4 times the volume of water chucked at us when we're in the shower, no wonder things are getting desparate.